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Old Jan 17 2008, 07:48 PM   #1
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Default Musical styles brought from Earth

Of course we all know Pern has its own musical style, with ballads, Gather dance tunes, the Teaching Songs, the Duty Song, and stuff like that.

But what I'm wondering is this: What kind of music survived long enough to help bring them all into being?

Did country, folk, western and gospel-type music last longer than anything like rock, reggae, calypso, rap, jazz and flamenco? Did any Celtic, Scottish, Asian, European, etc, influences die out? Or did some influences survive while others did not? I get the feeling the "Ballad Of Moreta's Ride" is like an opera, so are the odds that style also survived in its favor?

What do y'all think?
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Old Jan 17 2008, 09:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

It seems like the haunting ballad has survived.

MHoP on.:

Quote:
One of the most nostalgic ballads - about the Crossing - could
indeed be turned into an instrumental piece, starting with the basic
melody, haunting enough, and then embellishments added. To
transcribe this, Petiron acquired enough of the reed-based writing
material which was a local product. It had a tendency to absorb so
much ink that his scores were a bit blotchy, but he could amend that
when he got back to the Harper Hall. He had always prided himself
on his musical memory.
Epic poems still survive.

D'Song on.:

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So it wasn't any wonder that they called on Menolly to play for them. She sang two of the longer Sagas about dragons; and then did the Name-Song for the current wingleaders of Benden Weyr so her Sea Hold would know their dragonmen. ... She wasn't the Harper to be told such things as courtesy.
the sea holders wanted more singing, but her throat was tired. So she played them a song they could sing, bellowing out the words in voices roughened by wind and salt. She saw her father scowling at her, though he was singing along with the rest of them, and she wondered if he didn't want her—a mere girl—to play men's songs. If galled her because she'd played them often enough when Petiron was alive. She sighed at this in-
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Old Jan 18 2008, 01:21 AM   #3
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

Rock music wouldn't survive the death of amplification technologies. Folky music would survive or be reinvented, and in that I'd count everything from Celtic to country. Epic ballads would survive because that's the way the Harpers largely taught things, even if it sounds counter-intuitive given that most Pernese seem to have been literate. In a real situation like this, some type of rhythmic recital, like rap, would probably survive as well, given that a sizable part of any population can't sing.
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Old Jan 18 2008, 05:20 AM   #4
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

I agree with wat granath said and knowing Anne, operetta/musical like msic and shows will definitely have survived, with pera like stuff being reserved for special occasions and sung by Mastersingers.
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Old Jan 18 2008, 09:12 AM   #5
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

One of the first songs sung on Pern was to the tune of "Home on the Range", wasn't it? With simple instrumental accompianment, and, yes, guitar/gitar folky music seems to be very prominent.
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Old Jan 18 2008, 11:58 AM   #6
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

The expanded drum code developed by Tieran allowed drumming to become more complicated, and eventually resulted in new works of jazz and of traditional old-Earth Celtic music (Dragonsblood).

I believe Dragonseye mentioned that there was an atonal music fad at the College at one point, but it's been awhile since I've re-read it.

Might be time to take a dive back through looking specifically for music references ... any excuse to re-read them.
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Old Jan 18 2008, 03:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

You're right Avias shows Menolly the 1st night at landing and everyone sang Home on the Range.
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Old Jan 18 2008, 04:28 PM   #8
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The planetary flag, so proudly displayed that morning, had wrapped itself around the pole above the control tower. Someone, Joe Tobin or Kaarvan, began to play softly on a harmonica, an old tune, so familiar - yet Sallah couldn't name it. Someone else joined in with a recorder. Softly and hesitantly at first, then with more confidence, the tired colonsts began to sing or hum the words. Other voices added harmony, and Sallah remembered it was 'Home on the Range'. There certainly had been no 'discouraging words' that day. And an evening serenade did make the landing site seem a bit more like home.
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Old Jan 18 2008, 04:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

I wonder how many folk songs ready would have survied all the years
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Old Jan 18 2008, 06:34 PM   #10
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

2,500 years?



Name me one Terran song half that old...
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Old Jan 18 2008, 06:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

And that's not even accounting for dead languages and other language changes...
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Old Jan 18 2008, 07:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

Hans: The Psalms have survived for around three thousand and they're still in use every day.
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Old Jan 18 2008, 10:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

Yeah - the tune and words might not have been exactly like "Home on the Range" as we know it today... I know that I, personally, don't know more than the first verse and the chorus, and I know that there are more verses than that. It's quite possible that by the time they got to Pern they didn't even know what buffalo and antelope were anymore.
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Old Jan 19 2008, 07:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

Quote:
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Hans: The Psalms have survived for around three thousand and they're still in use every day.
I don't think so
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Old Jan 19 2008, 09:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

Just looking up some things about psalms (along with bad memories of my Confirmation Classes - somehow I managed to not conflagrate in the Church).

The oldest psalms weren't written down in Hebrew until about 600BCE, and "traditionally" the first were devised by David around 1000BCE, but modern scholars tend to agree that they were by a variety of people over an unknown length of time. Some of them survive to this day, "The Lord Is My Shepherd" being a good example.

I know this wasn't P'ter's point, but can you count religious songs and chants as "folk" or even "traditional" music? After all, they have a specific message and context. It's hardly round-the-campfire stuff, is it?

I think the treatment of such material (religious works) tends to be different than the everyday "fol-de-rol the daisy and the hedgehog tra-la" type of folk music, and it would be more likely that they would be lost forever (which is a common fact, even today).
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Old Jan 19 2008, 10:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

It would also come down to the colonists themselves and what they wanted to take with them, and hear, on Pern. I tend to favour the more folky music style of things as what is generally played by Harpers - but I can also see more formalised styles, such as orchestral and opra have survived, and in use. I think that's born out by the text of the books as well.

Personally I think the more folky styles of music lasted longer in the holds and weyrs proper. I think other styles may have survived and evolved as the Harper Craft Hall evolved into existance - and the Harpers would see it as there duty to try and preserve as much as possible. But I think a lot of the - what we consider - to be contempory styles of music would have vanished.
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Old Jan 19 2008, 10:46 AM   #17
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I can't imagine Nutbush City Limits suriving to get to Pern .........
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Old Jan 19 2008, 11:47 AM   #18
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Of for that matter the relaxing sounds of Puddle of Mudd.
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Old Jan 19 2008, 12:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

@ Jay and Gidge

Uhm.. I just don't believe that any of the current psalms have any real resemblance to anything the jews composed in the era BC

And I'm afraid that any person with a little bit of musical knowledge (Euro/Asian/Arabic/Jewish) would have to agree. Maybe, a very tentative maybe, there are a few words of the original traditional songs (psalms) are preserved in the in the modern ones but I highly doubt it. What we now have is composed many, many centuries later. I mean, if anything would be based on the original Jewish songs it would have been translated into Latin during the early ages of Christianity and only after Latin was more or less abolished in the catholic church in the 17th century in Europe (post Luther) would there have composed songs that resemble the ones we now sing. Heck, even the Latin stuff in only known by the catholic clergy and then not even by all
The fact that psalms date ack to King David's time is probably taken from the bible, a highly speculative and historically doubtful source that was only written down much, very much, later... Believing what's in that book could be called belief, so... "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven" but that's also the problem with it
Without thorough research I suppose that what the Euro christians of all different nominations sing today are either based upoin text dating back to medieval times or maybe a little further to heathen times (as the catholics were masters in adapting/mixing christian stuff to heathen stuff to make it easier for the "barbarians" to "convert" (this can't be only have been hapening with feast days and such, maybe some folk music crept into it to, an interesting study that would be )
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Old Jan 19 2008, 01:11 PM   #20
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Uhm.. I just don't believe that any of the current psalms have any real resemblance to anything the jews composed in the era BC
Oh I quite agree. Even modern hymns bear little resemblance today to those sung even 30 years ago (tweaking of lyrics and tunes as and when etc).

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The fact that psalms date ack to King David's time is probably taken from the bible, a highly speculative and historically doubtful source that was only written down much, very much, later...
(Is there a bigger "emphatic nodding" smilie??? LOL)
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Old Jan 20 2008, 03:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

I always had the idea of folk music in my head, too...Although (and this may be because I do Re-Enactment of this era) I could quite easily place some 15th century type music in there as the dancing music at gathers. Heck, the 'toss dance' seems a little like a dance we do at the levy, but more energetic. The stuff we have tends to be done on instruments we know they'd have on Pern, such as pipes and drums.

As Granath says, some music wouldn't be able to be reproduced due to the lack of instruments they'd have. (E.G. The Electric guitar, keyboard, (piano?) etc).
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Old Jan 20 2008, 04:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

There was one piano at least that survived until the second pass, but they had trouble keeping it in tune and storing it in proper conditions. Besides, traveling harpers benefit more from instruments small enough to be carried, so that various kinds of pipes, guitar and violin type string instruments, and probably some smaller lap-harps would be the most common. A cello or a full-sized harp would probably only be found at the Harper Hall.
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Old Jan 20 2008, 04:55 PM   #23
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I have a photo I've taken of a Tudor musical trio that would look good as a Harper Hall group.
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Old Jan 20 2008, 05:31 PM   #24
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I agree with most of you. I think that most of the music would be folk type songs, easy to sing with or without instruments. At the big gather I think there would be a musical play or opera.
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Old Feb 14 2008, 10:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

I'm sorry to bump this, but I'm curious: With AIVAS telling the Pernese how to harness electricity through dams, is it possible a rock flavor could return to Pern? Not necessarily rock itself, but an influence?
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Old Feb 15 2008, 12:05 AM   #26
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I think that eletrical insturments would still be hard to make.
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Old Feb 15 2008, 03:34 AM   #27
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Yes MF, it would be possible but I suppose it'll take a helluva long time to get a decent electrical network working on Pern and that rock music might be even more opposed and objected to than it was on Earth They can't call it music from the devil but by the Ninth Pass their society was even more set in old and established ways than 20th century Terra
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Old Feb 15 2008, 04:53 AM   #28
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Good points, Ms Mawra and Mr. Hans. Thank you.
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Old Feb 15 2008, 10:17 AM   #29
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"The Long and Winding Road" is mentioned in Dragon's Eye (Red Star Rising)
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Old Feb 15 2008, 12:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Musical styles brought from Earth

I really don't see any kind of electronic music happening one Pern, at least not until electricity was extreemly common on Pern...other wise they would only be able to preform it at only a few of the largest holds, that had it.
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Old Feb 15 2008, 12:54 PM   #31
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I was thinking like some of the country songs. Like These Boots were made for walking.
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Old Feb 15 2008, 02:08 PM   #32
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Well, they could do that acoustically.
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Old Feb 17 2008, 01:17 AM   #33
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I'm sorry to bump this, but I'm curious: With AIVAS telling the Pernese how to harness electricity through dams, is it possible a rock flavor could return to Pern? Not necessarily rock itself, but an influence?
It certainly could. Witness all of the "unplugged" songs out there by rock groups, no small number of which incorporate folk and Celtic elements, and in the symphonic metal scene, operatic vocals.

I doubt making electrified instruments would be much of a priority, but I can see an intrigued harper listening to the old music and a venturesome smith wanting to tackle the problem. Personally, in a film, I stunt-cast that smith with Birgit Ollbrunner.

In fact, given the curiosity of 9th Pass Harper and Smiths, it's almost certain that a set of electrified instruments would get made, but I suspect they'd just be a curiosity and would not take hold. They're just not a high priority.
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Old Feb 17 2008, 04:47 AM   #34
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Perhaps Wansor would reinvent the glass harmonica?
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