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Old Nov 13 2010, 09:00 PM   #41
jube
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Cool Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

It'd all come under dominant and recessive genes. If you had 4 kids, you would have 2 with a dominant gene, 1 with a recessive and 1 with a combination of both (or something to that effect, it's been a long time since I've done biology so it's probably a trivial piece of information that got stuck in my brain), depending on the parents. The opposite could happen too ~> 2 with the recessive, 1 with the dominant and 1 with a combination gene or is that 2 with a combination, 1 with dominant and 1 with recessive? Ponders...... Anyway that's what I've come up with. Then again think of Dolly the Sheep...can cloned animals breed? Well the dragons did so why not the firelizards?

Also in regards to oiling, think of monkeys picking lice out of each other's fur, the firelizards would probably do the same when they live in fairs. A couple of packtail caught when feeding on thread by a couple of firelizards and the oil's smeared by their talons, bingo, let's share it around and make sure everyone's covered with fishy sunblock Possibility exists even if it isn't mentioned.
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Old Nov 14 2010, 11:54 AM   #42
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Well, but if they can engineer a fire lizard into a dragon, I guess they could make it so the other modifications would *always* be dominant. Any offspring of the modified lizard would carry the modifications, whether they bred to a native or another modified.
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Old Nov 14 2010, 06:14 PM   #43
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

the five toed/mentasynth lizards were designed to be dominant genetically, so that eventuallly there would be none of the 3 toed.

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So then would the modifications have been designed to be the dominant gene? So that if they did interbreed with the wild population, that trait would Always be there in the offspring? I guess that would have to be it - I really don't see there being such fierce competition that simply having five toes would allow them to drive the three-toed natives to extinction.
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Old Nov 15 2010, 01:07 PM   #44
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

There's something very unethical about that!
Mind you, the whole colonisation process sounds like a (xeno)ecologist's nightmare!
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Old Nov 15 2010, 02:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Do any of the Ninth Pass stories actually describe the structure of the fire-lizards' paws/claws? I think there can only be the one kind (whichever it is) by then --- surely somebody would have noticed if there were 2 distinct varieties.

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Old Nov 15 2010, 02:29 PM   #46
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2cent Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

heh, no kidding! they fly off from Earth, with a Noah's Ark of animals they plann ed to modify to be able to live on the planet's resources....but apparently didnt remember what happens here, in our time, and recent history, what happens when we take animals from one country to another. usually not a good result. im thinking of Australia in particular...the English took over their sport animals, and the animals took over the country! especially rabbits and such. i've seen video of hundreds of panicked rabbits, up against a wire fence, totally freaked out over something. and i''ve heard of them doing mass killings of them.

so you would think that, with all the experience of colonizing other worlds, they would know the price to be paid-an eco system thrown out of whack.


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There's something very unethical about that!
Mind you, the whole colonisation process sounds like a (xeno)ecologist's nightmare!
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Old Nov 15 2010, 03:48 PM   #47
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Yes and we're still trying to get rid of "feral" animals like rabbits, cats, dogs, foxes, cane toads etc because of "let's bring these animals over so we can have a bit of fun and OOPS, let's screw future generations of native animals, just for a bit of sport", hmmm..... So you're always going to get the likes of the English (no offence guys and gals of English origins) .... okay, take your-pick-of-original-country instead of picking on England or someone like Tubberman who genetically modifies animals and WHO DON'T know what they're doing properly (and they like to think they do) and well ... they suitably screw up people's, other animals and the eco-system up. Also if you look into native fauna and flora, the Aboriginals had the right idea ('till someone destroyed their whole set-up, oops that's now going ) of taking a little bit from this area then move to another area, take a little bit until they've done a full circle to allow an area to re-generate. I like that idea even if I don't always practise it everyday, usually it's mainly composting and then using the dirt to feed the trees and plants that gave me the stuff to compost in the first place but that's getting now ... hopefully you get the idea though of what even a small thing can do to help or hinder the environment. And I won't go into the political discussion of it all, that's another subject altogether


Although wikipedia doesn't always give the full information, this article at least gives the basic idea of what Lady Deerskin meant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasiv...s_in_Australia
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Old Nov 15 2010, 04:07 PM   #48
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

actually, if we want to take a snippet from one of Todd's books, and treat it as canon, WindBlossom, in her last conversation with Sorka, was discussing how the Eridani would never permit their methods to be used unless there were three human family bloodlines committed to watching over the changes that were made, and make sure that nothing like Australia happened (ok, im paraphrasing! ^_^). obviously, she was one of the bloodlines, but it seems that the tubberman and hanrahan families were also chosen for this. i dont know if the parents knew, and didnt tell the children-seems not- but it was really odd to see that. i wish i could give you a book title, but with my daughter digging through all my books to find things, now *I* cant either!


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Yes and we're still trying to get rid of "feral" animals like rabbits, cats, dogs, foxes, cane toads etc because of "let's bring these animals over so we can have a bit of fun and OOPS, let's screw future generations of native animals, just for a bit of sport", hmmm..... So you're always going to get the likes of the English (no offence guys and gals of English origins) .... okay, take your-pick-of-original-country instead of picking on England or someone like Tubberman who genetically modifies animals and WHO DON'T know what they're doing properly (and they like to think they do) and well ... they suitably screw up people's, other animals and the eco-system up. Also if you look into native fauna and flora, the Aboriginals had the right idea ('till someone destroyed their whole set-up, oops that's now going ) of taking a little bit from this area then move to another area, take a little bit until they've done a full circle to allow an area to re-generate. I like that idea even if I don't always practise it everyday, usually it's mainly composting and then using the dirt to feed the trees and plants that gave me the stuff to compost in the first place but that's getting now ... hopefully you get the idea though of what even a small thing can do to help or hinder the environment. And I won't go into the political discussion of it all, that's another subject altogether


Although wikipedia doesn't always give the full information, this article at least gives the basic idea of what Lady Deerskin meant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasiv...s_in_Australia
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Old Nov 15 2010, 05:35 PM   #49
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

It's Dragonsblood that you're thinking of.
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Old Nov 15 2010, 08:06 PM   #50
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

yes. if a dominant trait is designed that way, it will overrun lesser ones. and it would happen even with a breeding of menta x wild/original. its not the toe issue, its that the mentas were more intelligent, among other traits.

i used to breed birds professionally, years ago, cockatiels and zebra finches. many times i tried to breed for specific colours, sizes and such, and most of the time it wouldnt stick-you had to repeat the sequence of crosses again to get the same colour. but one odd colour popped up with my zebras, that now can be seen in some places, because once i got it stablelised into a dominant trait, it would show up in the babies, no matter what colour the other parent was. zebra finches normally have a black and white striped breast, but these lil guys i developed had a solid black breast that was gradually, over the years, spreading downward. i was wondering if i could eventually breed for a mostly black bird, but it hasnt happened. its stayed at about the width of the original black and white striped space. http://www.efinch.com/species/bbzeb.htm from what i see on google, someone beat me to it, and did develop a totally black zebra finch, but at least i can say i started it with the black breasted one!


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So then would the modifications have been designed to be the dominant gene? So that if they did interbreed with the wild population, that trait would Always be there in the offspring? I guess that would have to be it - I really don't see there being such fierce competition that simply having five toes would allow them to drive the three-toed natives to extinction.
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Old Nov 16 2010, 04:30 AM   #51
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

I always thought it was 3 people only - Kitti Ping, Wind Blossom and Ted Tubberman - those who practised the Eridani techniques. The Hanrahan family didn't come into it. Damn, I'm going to have to re-read Dragonsdawn and Dragonsblood again to make sure.
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Old Nov 16 2010, 03:58 PM   #52
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

I do think the only firelizards left are the metasynthed ones. From the descriptions we get of what metasynth does, it is both heritable and dominant. (After all, the implication is that many of the dragonriders are descendants of metasynthed humans.)

That, and no one comments about the hands looking different. You'd think that would be a key point of debate, once they're rediscovered.

As to the oiling: social grooming makes a lot of sense, as does the idea that dragons need more of it because of the change to their diets.
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Old Nov 18 2010, 02:00 PM   #53
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

The Dragonlovers Guide to Pern says that the 5-finger paw was engineered into the dragonets. However, I was reading DragonsDawn last night and it says Bay and Pol only used mentasynth on Mariah's clutch. No other modifications are mentioned, and really, none were needed, since the dragonets were perfectly adapted to their environment.

Then in the chapter where the young dragons are being bathed and oiled, it says:

"The claw design was one of the few physical modificationsthat Kitti Ping had made from dragonet to dragon. The fingerlike claws would be more useful, she had thought, for grabbing running animals than the dragonets' pincer-type arrangement."

So the dragons got the hands, not the fire-lizards.

I guess Todd must have used DLGP as his main expert reference.

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Old Nov 18 2010, 05:05 PM   #54
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

That fits with what I remember.
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Old Nov 19 2010, 01:44 AM   #55
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

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I do think the only firelizards left are the metasynthed ones. From the descriptions we get of what metasynth does, it is both heritable and dominant. (After all, the implication is that many of the dragonriders are descendants of metasynthed humans.)

That, and no one comments about the hands looking different. You'd think that would be a key point of debate, once they're rediscovered.

As to the oiling: social grooming makes a lot of sense, as does the idea that dragons need more of it because of the change to their diets.
Also the dolphins, for in Dragonsdawn they were 'uptight about the earthquake', for they rang and rang the bell and no human came to hear their report. Also that is also passed down too.
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Old Nov 19 2010, 02:54 PM   #56
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

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Also the dolphins, for in Dragonsdawn they were 'uptight about the earthquake', for they rang and rang the bell and no human came to hear their report. Also that is also passed down too.
Mentasynth?
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Old Nov 19 2010, 04:56 PM   #57
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Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

its in the scene where WindBlossom has gone to see Sorka before she died. Sorka kind of twisted her arm to get her to tell about why the Tubberman boy was so important, i think. to be honest, its all not really clear, you kind of have to fill in the gaps yourself. and if i can find that book, i'll look it up


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I always thought it was 3 people only - Kitti Ping, Wind Blossom and Ted Tubberman - those who practised the Eridani techniques. The Hanrahan family didn't come into it. Damn, I'm going to have to re-read Dragonsdawn and Dragonsblood again to make sure.
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