A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum  

Go Back   A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum > The Anne McCaffrey Collection > Dragonriders of Pern

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Mar 25 2006, 03:05 PM   #1
monkeysrule
Le RAWR.
Hatchling
 
monkeysrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: High up a tree somewhere
Gender: F
Fan of: Monkeys
Now Reading: expensive textbooks!
Default Wild firelizards and oiling

We know from Dragonsong and other books that a newly hatched firelizard needs its skin oiled to help it stretch without cracking. How do wild firelizards attain the oil for their skins? Do they catch a fish and roll around in it or something?
monkeysrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 25 2006, 03:14 PM   #2
Spaceman Spiff
Aspiring Dragon Anatomist
 
Spaceman Spiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Gender: M
Fan of: PERN!!!
Now Reading: Lord of the Rings
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

For something like this I would think that they should have glands by their eyes or something that they rub all over themselves. It would be more efficient to have the solution from themselves rather than from an outside source. But since people have to do it for them, it's apparant that this isn't the case, so I'm not sure.
Spaceman Spiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 25 2006, 04:00 PM   #3
Greenrider Tresa
The Contrary
Planetary Brain
 
Greenrider Tresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Gender: F
Fan of: The Ship Who Searched
Now Reading: The Calhoun Collection, Nora Roberts
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Or maybe doing it for them is even more effective or something. Sort of like how combing a cat's fur keeps it from tangling though they can lick themselves clean and shed loose fur.
__________________
Thinking, understanding, reasoning, willing, call not these
Soul! They are its actions, but they are not its essence.

Akhenaton? (c. B.C. 1375)
Egyptian King and Monotheist


Greenrider Tresa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 25 2006, 04:22 PM   #4
GirlSlick
Member
Curlycorn
 
GirlSlick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

I've always thought that the dragons' need for external oiling has something to do with a deficiency in their diet. I don't think fire-lizards roll in dead fish to oil themselves - it would make more sense to me that they don't need oiling because they already eat a diet of oily fish. Dragons need oiling because they eat red meat instead, and presumably thus miss out on ingesting the nutrients that the fire-lizards get from their normal diet.
GirlSlick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 25 2006, 05:43 PM   #5
Cheryl
Master Archivist
 
Cheryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Maryland, USA
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern!
Now Reading: Paladin of Souls (Bujold)
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

I'm pretty sure there's a passage in one of the books where someone (Menolly I think...) comments on seeing a wild firelizard rolling on an oily fish or something like that...

Perhaps our resident quote finder can dig that one up. Oh Chimmie!
__________________
Visit one of the other sites of Cheryl's Anne McCaffrey Triad:
Sariel's Guide to Pern: a detailed guide to the series
The Many Works of Anne McCaffrey: largest fan site about Anne and ALL of her works
McCaffrey Quest: annual trivia contest.
Cheryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 25 2006, 06:33 PM   #6
Lady Maelin
Master Artist


 
Lady Maelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern,The Ship Who Sang
Now Reading: Anne's Pern EVERYTHING !
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Mor than likely the dragons need the oiling because of the size of them from Kitty Pings enlarging the species. They grow so very fast, unlike the smaller firelizards, so they need the extra applied to them.

The fish diet, verses the red meat diet does seem also relevent to the greater need for the dragons hide.
__________________
"To the Horsehead Nebula and back we shall make beautiful music"..."Together!"

The stories of childhood leave an indelible impression,and their author always has a niche in the temple of memory from which the image is never cut out to be thrown on the rubbish heap of things that are outgrown and outlived........Howard Pyle
Lady Maelin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 25 2006, 08:17 PM   #7
Myt
Stowaway
Senior Apprentice
 
Myt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wherever is home right now.
Gender: F
Fan of: Dragonriders of Pern
Now Reading: Something, always something...
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Yes, but... Impressed firelizards need oiling too
Myt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 26 2006, 12:40 AM   #8
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Maybe wild fire lizards just die occasionally from infections of the skin due to lesions from growing too fast, exacerbated by between.

Or, maybe wild fire lizards eat something that the ones raised by humans are unaware of.
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 26 2006, 12:01 PM   #9
Chimaerrha
Junior Weyrwoman
 
Chimaerrha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Gender: F
Fan of: Dragonriders of Pern
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Baby dragons grow at a very fast rate - thus their bellies expand and so does their skin. Maybe wild fire lizards don't have that much to eat, so oiling is not as necessary.
Chimaerrha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 27 2006, 06:01 AM   #10
granath
Talent
Tower Prime
 
granath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Proud Mom!
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon
Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myt
Yes, but... Impressed firelizards need oiling too
They do, but that's because they're mainly fed red meat. Oily fish doesn't travel well in a hot climate without refrigeration, so I can imagine that folks inland don't get all that much fish in their diet. Cured fish probably doesn't do as much good to the firelizards, and if it's expensive to transport it would be reserved for the higher-status folks in any case.
__________________
Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda
VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!
granath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 27 2006, 08:00 AM   #11
Kath
Starsmith


Weyrwoman
 
Kath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oop North

Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by granath
Oily fish doesn't travel well in a hot climate without refrigeration, so I can imagine that folks inland don't get all that much fish in their diet.
Speaking as someone who nearly died from scombrotoxin poisoning (which occurs without any odour or visible spoilage of the fish in question), I second that view. Fish, oily or otherwise, is going to be restricted to coastal/estuary/riverside holds.
Kath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 28 2006, 12:21 PM   #12
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Well, Menolly noticed skin lesions on her fire lizards, and they were subsisting wholly on fish at the time. I think it's probably just not as much of a problem for fire lizards as it is for dragons, since they don't grow as much or as fast. And the wild ones - they're wild. If they get seriously hurt, they die. I wonder if they would be smart enough to know not to go between if they have a bad lesion, and just wait for it to heal?
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 28 2006, 02:41 PM   #13
Greenrider Tresa
The Contrary
Planetary Brain
 
Greenrider Tresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Gender: F
Fan of: The Ship Who Searched
Now Reading: The Calhoun Collection, Nora Roberts
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

I think they would...at the very least they could learn fromn experience and observation.
__________________
Thinking, understanding, reasoning, willing, call not these
Soul! They are its actions, but they are not its essence.

Akhenaton? (c. B.C. 1375)
Egyptian King and Monotheist


Greenrider Tresa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31 2006, 12:04 AM   #14
Becky
Coelura
 
Becky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington
Gender: F
Fan of: Fav character - Lunzie
Now Reading: Love reading Lanen's books too
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Maybe when Menolly and even Sorka noticed the patchy skin they thought only in human terms and decided it needed to be oiled, so they supplied the solution to the need. Wild firelizards certainly could have found some sort of oily substance to roll in if they needed to be oiled, but maybe the ones that were impressed never really 'had' to find something because their humans did it for them. They probably would have done something about it if they'd stayed wild, but it's like feeding. They certainly could hunt for food, but why do so when it was brought to them?
So does that make sense? Wild ones were self sufficient but once impressed they needed human help to a certain extent.
__________________
Becky
aka Coelura1
Becky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31 2006, 04:29 AM   #15
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Perhaps there was something missing from the tame firelizards diet that they would eat naturally in the wild?
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31 2006, 05:33 AM   #16
c_ris
Journeyman Harper Roedin
Wing Second
 
c_ris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Great Britain
Gender: M
Fan of: the Dragonriders of Pern!
Now Reading: The Elder Gods - Eddings
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Or simply the lack of a mother to teach them?!
__________________
Roedin Of Pern

"When a harper is silenced, all men should listen harder." AtWoP
c_ris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31 2006, 02:54 PM   #17
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Well, in DSo Menolly knows that the lesion could crack in the cold of between, causing a more serious injury or death; I imagine that that the dragonriders might know of that. Maybe the occasional Weyrling is lazy and their dragon gets an infected lesion?

Whatever the reason, we know that fire lizards and dragons all love to be oiled!
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 2 2006, 05:53 AM   #18
ChrisG
Inactive
 
ChrisG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ascension Island, South Atlantic Ocean
Gender: M
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

I’m thinking along the same lines as Coelura1 on this one. Perhaps having a patchy hide isn’t nearly as dangerous as it’s made out to be, and cracks are common in wild fire-lizards. It might be uncomfortable, but it isn’t certain to be fatal.

Last edited by ChrisG; Apr 2 2006 at 06:17 AM.
ChrisG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 2 2006, 03:39 PM   #19
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Or maybe it's dangerous for dragons, but not very dangerous for fire lizards since they don't grow so much or get so big - and all that they know of fire lizards is by comparing them with dragons, so they assume that it would be as dangerous for the lizards.
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 3 2006, 05:39 PM   #20
Shalyn
Senior Member
 
Shalyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Loo-a-vull / Luhvuhl / Loo-ih-ville / Loo-a-ville / Looeyville / Lewisville Oh, Heck. Kentuckiana.
Gender: F
Fan of: Dragonflight
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda
Well, in DSo Menolly knows that the lesion could crack in the cold of between, causing a more serious injury or death; I imagine that that the dragonriders might know of that. Maybe the occasional Weyrling is lazy and their dragon gets an infected lesion?

Whatever the reason, we know that fire lizards and dragons all love to be oiled!
Speaking as someone who is cursed with dry skin - I don't blame them. I'd love to be oiled, too!!!
Shalyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 12:14 AM   #21
T'mynn
Dragon Rider-Yaaahhooo!
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

My cats LOVE being combed, it helps for more bonding and benificial to their fur. It stimulaited the oils in the fur and brushing distibutes it. It's more than likely the same for the Firelizards and dragons. FOr the firlizards, the fish guts and oil would work. I bet the tamer ones prefer their human friends oiling them because it's a bonding thing and probbaly feels reaaaal good.. DO the lizards rub eahc other? They've fingers, are their 'thumbs' posssiable?
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 01:44 AM   #22
GinnyStar
Dolphineer
Craftmaster
 
GinnyStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wausau, WI USA, Central Standard Time
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, other SF works
Now Reading: Dragonback Bargain
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Would that also depend on what the wild onces ate, mainly fish?

Also we do know that the fire dragonnet had three clawed hand, when the first fire lizards where made, the change its to a five finger hand.

The new one grew more differntly that the older once for the care that they were given.

In Dragonsong using the "Teaching Songs about dragons she knew that they needed to be oiled, sorry if this post it coming out odd. The med is still slowing me down a bit.
__________________
Lover s s, s and friends
Lover of and beads,
http://www.change.org/profiles/GinnyStar
Dragoncave GinnyStar2
Jellied Dragons
Lair of Dragons
http://dragcave.net/user/GinnyStar2
Thanks! Others: None at this time
WIP http://archiveofourown.org/works/252259
http://www.daisy.org/learning-difficulties
GinnyStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 02:00 AM   #23
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Thinking about it now, I'm rather surprised that firelizards aren't shown to do a lot of social grooming in the books. If they did, I would suspect that they would secrete something (in glands, or in their saliva, like said above) that they would then spread over the other firelizards living in their fair when they groom them. Queens obviously would get the most attention, probably from bronzes and browns looking to have a good relationship with the queen when it comes time to fly her.

I mean, birds groom one another, and so do monkeys, as do ants, and any other animal that lives in a highly social group. Why not firelizards?
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 06:58 AM   #24
Rissa
Member
Journeyman
 
Rissa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: F
Fan of: Fantasy
Now Reading: Dragonlovers Guide to Pern
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. M. Domini View Post
Thinking about it now, I'm rather surprised that firelizards aren't shown to do a lot of social grooming in the books. If they did, I would suspect that they would secrete something (in glands, or in their saliva, like said above) that they would then spread over the other firelizards living in their fair when they groom them. Queens obviously would get the most attention, probably from bronzes and browns looking to have a good relationship with the queen when it comes time to fly her.

I mean, birds groom one another, and so do monkeys, as do ants, and any other animal that lives in a highly social group. Why not firelizards?
Hmm..I was thinking the same thing.

Social grooming probably solves alot of issues in the wild that the human fair must take over. And when they cant get that, they look for anything else that would help them...even if that includes rolling around in whatever oils they can find.
Rissa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 11:47 AM   #25
T'mynn
Dragon Rider-Yaaahhooo!
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Maybe they'e glands on various palcess that'll secrete the natural skin oils and the social grooming helps with spreading it around to areas their hands can't get too.
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 08:44 PM   #26
Rissa
Member
Journeyman
 
Rissa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: F
Fan of: Fantasy
Now Reading: Dragonlovers Guide to Pern
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Hi guys...

I ran into this little tidbit..jut throught I would throw it in the mix. It came from a little snippit on firelizards.

Cracked Hides and Oiling

Wild firelizards don’t have humans to oil them. If they
want to keep their hides in good condition, then they need
to eat foods that contain enough of the right sort of dietary
fats for them to make their own, natural skin oils. Both
wild and tame ‘lizards spend a lot of time preening
themselves and each other – this is to ensure that the natural
oils they produce are spread evenly across their hide.
Although their whole skin can secrete the necessary oils in
small quantities, each ‘lizard has patches on the underside
and sides of the chin which can produce more if necessary.

Firelizards will rub these patches over companions in
displays that combine affection and the practicality of
mutual oiling.

Wild firelizards that have an inadequate diet will
develop cracked and flaking skin that can develop into sores
or other infections. Cracks are also dangerous when going
between, and a badly maintained skin can be fatal. A wild
firelizard which is not part of a fair (such as one that has just
left its birth fair -see Lesser Colours above) may have
trouble finding or retaining good feeding places and quickly
develop an unhealthy hide.

Tame firelizards can develop cracks for two reasons: firstly, newly Impressed ‘lizards are usually being cared for entirely by a human owner, not a fair of their own species. No matter how loving and affectionate
the owner is, human skin doesn’t provide enough or the
right sort of natural oils to “preen” a juvenile firelizard’s
skin into health. Secondly, the firelizard will be getting fed
on scraps of human foodstuffs. These may be inadequate in
fats or simply have the wrong sort of fats for the firelizard to
successfully secrete enough oil – beef, for instance, isn’t
normally on a wild firelizard’s menu. Feral ‘lizards that live
around the Weyr and feed on scraps won’t have terribly good
diets and have no humans to care for them, which might
well explain why they always seem to look rather tattered in
comparison to tame ones or truly wild individuals.

‘Lizard owners can, of course, solve either of these
problems, by oiling their pets’ hides manually. A variety of
animal and plant oils are suitable for this, as long as they
will rub completely into the hide and not leave it slick or
sticky (it should be like rubbing in a 21st century hand cream
NOT like smearing the poor creatures in cooking oil!).
Most ‘lizards will thoroughly enjoy all the attention that a
good oiling lavishes on them.
Rissa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 08:51 PM   #27
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Ran into it where exactly? References please...
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 22 2008, 04:23 AM   #28
Rissa
Member
Journeyman
 
Rissa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: F
Fan of: Fantasy
Now Reading: Dragonlovers Guide to Pern
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

EEk!..I copied the PDF file..but not the addy. Give me a bit, and I'll see if I can find the page again.


*I do LOTS of searches*
Rissa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30 2008, 01:53 AM   #29
GinnyStar
Dolphineer
Craftmaster
 
GinnyStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wausau, WI USA, Central Standard Time
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, other SF works
Now Reading: Dragonback Bargain
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Here is a bit too, DD when the first dragonriders tell their fairs to get fish, they would comeback with a packtail in their claws, for somehing Kathy said that the fire lizards knew why type of fish the dragons liked, and packtail are very bad fish, to cut as Menolly, but has a lot of oil in it.
__________________
Lover s s, s and friends
Lover of and beads,
http://www.change.org/profiles/GinnyStar
Dragoncave GinnyStar2
Jellied Dragons
Lair of Dragons
http://dragcave.net/user/GinnyStar2
Thanks! Others: None at this time
WIP http://archiveofourown.org/works/252259
http://www.daisy.org/learning-difficulties
GinnyStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30 2008, 11:59 AM   #30
T'mynn
Dragon Rider-Yaaahhooo!
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Humans hate packtail but the dragons an lizards LOVED them. Good for their skin to give that 'youythful glow'. :-)
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30 2008, 09:39 PM   #31
Multi-Facets
Insert Witty Title Here.
 
Multi-Facets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Colorado
Gender: F
Fan of: Girl Who Heard Dragons
Now Reading: Newflesh/Mira Grant.
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. M. Domini View Post
Thinking about it now, I'm rather surprised that firelizards aren't shown to do a lot of social grooming in the books. If they did, I would suspect that they would secrete something (in glands, or in their saliva, like said above) that they would then spread over the other firelizards living in their fair when they groom them. Queens obviously would get the most attention, probably from bronzes and browns looking to have a good relationship with the queen when it comes time to fly her.

I mean, birds groom one another, and so do monkeys, as do ants, and any other animal that lives in a highly social group. Why not firelizards?
Yeah! Beauty groomed herself in "Dragonsong", I believe, so why not social grooming?
__________________
Rest well, Mrs. McCaffrey. Long live your work!
Multi-Facets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 5 2008, 12:02 AM   #32
ghost8772
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denver, Colorado US
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern
Now Reading: The Dresden Files
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Maybe its the growth rate more than the diet. Tamed fire lizards having human help and or regular feeding increases their growth rate. In Dragonsong, there was a note that Menolly periodically saw some of the other lizards from Beauty's hatching but they seemed smaller than hers. If the fire lizards were growing faster than the norm, they could have patchy skin, akin to human stretch marks. Hmmmm.... A difference from indigenous diet could not be ruled out either. Actually diet could answer the need for oiling as well over total lifetime. If their system was made more for seafood dietary requirements, the oils could have been more efficiently produced, but both land based, AND transplanted animals (like the herdbeasts are) would not suit the overall dietary requirements. kinda like a vegetarian needing to locate approved sources of protein to fulfill dietary requirements.

The first thought can answer why Menolly's fire lizards needed oiling, especially when they we eating the same foods as the wild ones, while the second thought could answer why the oiling would need to continue once a dragon, or fire lizard, reached full growth. The dietary requirement would also fit if the fire lizard's natural habitat was near the sea. Though in the White Dragon, they did show up at landing, a fair distance from the ocean.
ghost8772 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 7 2008, 12:03 PM   #33
Weyrbrat
Senior Member
Shipfish
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Gender: M
Fan of: The White Dragon
Now Reading: Misc
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

i can see why dragons would need oiling, being geneticly engineered and not having the streamlining slow perfecting (though not all evolved ccreatures are perfect of course) that would cause them to get round this problem. after all the dragons were made to be with humans, and no one could think of everything. o and of couse the dragons are getting bigger and bigger over time right? maybe this wasn't totally planned for, and the same thing was happening with firelizards, if only golds are fertile and only the bigger bronzes fly them, producing larger offspring. just an idea though?
Weyrbrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 7 2008, 03:38 PM   #34
T'mynn
Dragon Rider-Yaaahhooo!
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

It's possible the genesists hadfactored in eventual increase in growth over the years. It doesn't make much sense they made only one type of dragon fertile and one type that had the stamina to catch her. I'll have to borrow the first Pern book to find out the why behind that.(If it answers it at all.)
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 7 2008, 06:50 PM   #35
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

It's possible that the skin lesions that Menolly saw on Beauty and worried over, would be more dangerous for dragons than for fire lizards.
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8 2008, 02:23 PM   #36
Weyrbrat
Senior Member
Shipfish
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Gender: M
Fan of: The White Dragon
Now Reading: Misc
Post Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Mynn Enz View Post
It's possible the genesists hadfactored in eventual increase in growth over the years. It doesn't make much sense they made only one type of dragon fertile and one type that had the stamina to catch her. I'll have to borrow the first Pern book to find out the why behind that.(If it answers it at all.)
if you wanted to make a species bigger, that would be the way to do it. that way only the biggest offspring, bronzes and golds, would mate, producing bigger than last generation offspring. i think thats how dog breeders make dogs bigger, breeding only the biggest together.
Weyrbrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13 2010, 03:50 PM   #37
LadyDeerskin
Member
Rocksquat
 
LadyDeerskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: curled up in a warm spot!
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern,Talents,Shellpeople
Now Reading: All The Weyrs of Pern, The Skies of Pern
2cent Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

"wild" firelizards arent actully wild, any more than 'wild horses' are wild. they are feral, after Kitti Ping and Co. genetically fiddled with them. remember? in the book describing the lading of the colinists, they started with the firelizards, giving them mentasynth, and changing their paws from 3 toed to 5. so if the feral firelizards dont need oiling, why do the ones that have been caught, and their big cousins, the dragons?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlSlick View Post
I've always thought that the dragons' need for external oiling has something to do with a deficiency in their diet. I don't think fire-lizards roll in dead fish to oil themselves - it would make more sense to me that they don't need oiling because they already eat a diet of oily fish. Dragons need oiling because they eat red meat instead, and presumably thus miss out on ingesting the nutrients that the fire-lizards get from their normal diet.
LadyDeerskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13 2010, 04:50 PM   #38
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

So you think that all fire lizards in the 9th pass are descended from the few individuals that were genetically modified in Dragonsdawn? I find that exceedingly unlikely. It's far more likely that the original native line was all that continued.

In the short story about the founding of Ruatha in CoP, it is mentioned that many fire lizards have abandoned their owners because they don't like the cold. By the beginning of the second Pass in DE/RSR, there are no fire lizards to be seen. And of course, in the early 9th Pass they are thought to be just a story - although the fact that the story continues is an indication that the fire lizards have been there all along. Presumably, they have kept to the most isolated of coastlines; but there is the entirety of the Southern Continent's coastline for the species to have propogated on.

To begin with, there would have been an incredibly miniscule number of individuals with the genetic modifications. What is the likelihood that those modifications would have provided enough of an advantage that that tiny population would have replaced the entire existing population? After 2,000+ years, would that have happened?

Also, would they have been able to interbreed with the existing wild population? And if they did, what would be the dominant gene? I would think that with such a small population, even if the modifications came through in the first generation, after a couple of hundred generations it would revert back to the original design. Unless the modifications gave them an extreme advantage. Which I don't recall the modifications being so extreme - just a change in the shape of the paw, and the mentasynth.
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13 2010, 07:27 PM   #39
LadyDeerskin
Member
Rocksquat
 
LadyDeerskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: curled up in a warm spot!
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern,Talents,Shellpeople
Now Reading: All The Weyrs of Pern, The Skies of Pern
Gold Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

i cant remember where it was in the book, but the geneticists said something about how they were seeing the five toed/altered lizards were already beginning to take the place of the original types. and its logical that a better bred creature, with higher intelligence, would do so.

now i have to go find that book! my daughter is beginning to read them, and roots through my shelves in my room, trying to find the next one!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
So you think that all fire lizards in the 9th pass are descended from the few individuals that were genetically modified in Dragonsdawn? I find that exceedingly unlikely. It's far more likely that the original native line was all that continued.

In the short story about the founding of Ruatha in CoP, it is mentioned that many fire lizards have abandoned their owners because they don't like the cold. By the beginning of the second Pass in DE/RSR, there are no fire lizards to be seen. And of course, in the early 9th Pass they are thought to be just a story - although the fact that the story continues is an indication that the fire lizards have been there all along. Presumably, they have kept to the most isolated of coastlines; but there is the entirety of the Southern Continent's coastline for the species to have propogated on.

To begin with, there would have been an incredibly miniscule number of individuals with the genetic modifications. What is the likelihood that those modifications would have provided enough of an advantage that that tiny population would have replaced the entire existing population? After 2,000+ years, would that have happened?

Also, would they have been able to interbreed with the existing wild population? And if they did, what would be the dominant gene? I would think that with such a small population, even if the modifications came through in the first generation, after a couple of hundred generations it would revert back to the original design. Unless the modifications gave them an extreme advantage. Which I don't recall the modifications being so extreme - just a change in the shape of the paw, and the mentasynth.
LadyDeerskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13 2010, 08:27 PM   #40
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Wild firelizards and oiling

So then would the modifications have been designed to be the dominant gene? So that if they did interbreed with the wild population, that trait would Always be there in the offspring? I guess that would have to be it - I really don't see there being such fierce competition that simply having five toes would allow them to drive the three-toed natives to extinction.
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

A Meeting of Minds forum owned by Cheryl B. Miller.
All references to worlds and characters based on Anne McCaffrey’s fiction are copyright © Anne McCaffrey 1967-2008, all rights reserved, and used by permission of the author.