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Old Jun 16 2015, 09:53 PM   #1
manee
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Default Lord Holders elected ?

So, I though the oldest son just inherited, like Campen did. Why did they to have a big meeting and fuss about it to elect one of the three sons of Oterel of Tillek?

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Old Jun 17 2015, 12:09 AM   #2
Eriflor
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

The current Lord Holder usually announces who his heir will be. If there's any doubt about it, there will be a Conclave of the other Lords Holder to select one from among the various claimants, who should normally be members of the Bloodline but need not be his sons (daughters have been allowed to inherit at various times in Pern's history).

Chalkin won the lordship of Bitra Hold from his uncle Vergerin in a card game (he cheated). There didn't seem to be any other relations around. The criterion for selecting an heir was the ability to run the Hold at a profit (during an Interval) and organise the Holders to protect the Hold and its cot-holds against Thread in conjunction with the local Weyr. Ranrel of Tillek had helped his father with running the Hold; his brothers had not.
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Old Jun 18 2015, 07:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

I wondered about Fax. Wasnt he legal Lord of High Reaches. Who took over after his death? (I know, I could look it up) Other holdings taken by Fax reverted to their legal blood line I suppose. He would have had loads more children. Jax would have had lots of full brothers and sisters. We never hear of them, do we?
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Old Jun 18 2015, 12:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

Apart from Jaxom, I think Fax only had daughters by his numerous wives.

He inherited one small hold legally, killed the High Reaches heir in a duel (the other son went into hiding, and Fax was next in line), acquired 4 more holds by duelling the heirs, and killed almost the entire bloodline at Ruatha. (He married Gemma of Crom because she had Ruathan blood and he could use that as a claim on the Hold.)

Most of this info came from Masterharper of Pern.
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Old Jun 20 2015, 09:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

Lord Oterel didn't name his heir before he died, he did forgive Ranrel before he died, noted by Lord Bargen, two sevendays before he passed on, but didn't name him heir.
Ranrel he did understand the working of the fishercraft hall, for he wore fishercraft colors and his journeyman knot to his Rank Cords.
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Old Jun 22 2015, 09:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriflor View Post
The current Lord Holder usually announces who his heir will be. If there's any doubt about it, there will be a Conclave of the other Lords Holder to select one from among the various claimants, who should normally be members of the Bloodline but need not be his sons (daughters have been allowed to inherit at various times in Pern's history).

Chalkin won the lordship of Bitra Hold from his uncle Vergerin in a card game (he cheated). There didn't seem to be any other relations around. The criterion for selecting an heir was the ability to run the Hold at a profit (during an Interval) and organise the Holders to protect the Hold and its cot-holds against Thread in conjunction with the local Weyr. Ranrel of Tillek had helped his father with running the Hold; his brothers had not.

Actually the conformation is only to stave off a blood duels. This is why Robinton tried to Meron to name his heir. Meron being the dick that he was wanted his sons to fight to the death.
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Old Jun 23 2015, 01:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

I'm not sure if Meron actually had any sons, though he had several daughters (all too young to be married to a potential Lord Holder from outside).

Sylvina mentioned (in a discussion with Robinton) "nine or ten full-blooded male heirs". Deckter, the winner, was only a grand-nephew, and generally not considered a contender. The others could have been Meron's sons, brothers, cousins or nephews --- no relationship is ever mentioned other than "of the Blood".

The problem was that, in the absence of a declared heir, a whole flock of younger sons of Lord Holders would descend on Nabol to put in a claim to the vacant position, and then duel to the death for the Hold. Meanwhile, the Hold would have no leadership during Threadfall, causing difficulties for the local Weyr, which was Meron's main motivation. (Though since he'd been ill for some time, the flamethrower-crew should have had a competent leader.)
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Old Feb 26 2020, 08:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

I wonder about new holdings. How are they elected/given leaders?
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Old Feb 27 2020, 06:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

Which leads to - how did Toric get to be leading the Southern hold?
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Old Feb 27 2020, 07:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

Wasn't he granted hold leadership by the Weyr after they brought the riders back from the past for running the hold when F'lar sent Kylara and Prideth back in time so the riders from her first clutch could mature and be able to fight thread before Lessa went back in time to bring the oldtimers forward in time?
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Old Mar 1 2020, 07:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

I think so, but that doesn't explain how he got to be "Lord Holder" for all the other coastal holds in Southern that were established by people supposedly blown south in storms. Surely the leader of each of these newly established holds should be the "Holder" rather than somebody up the other end of a long, unmapped and untravelled coastline?"
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Old Mar 1 2020, 07:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

He wasn't a "Lord" Holder, just a holder. In " The White Dragon" when they are digging out the first mounds at Landing Jaxom calls him "Holder Torik" almost as an insult to remind him that he (Jaxom) is a Lord Holder.

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Old Mar 3 2020, 06:44 AM   #13
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

Whether he had the official title or not it is clear from the repeated references to his claims to have the overseeing of all the coastal settlements and ambitions to extend his influence further that he regards himself as the "Lord Holder" for Southern and is resentful of the northern lords attempts to limit his boundaries and his power.
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Old Mar 7 2020, 02:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lord Holders elected ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair View Post
I wonder about new holdings. How are they elected/given leaders?
I think new holdings would only be started during an Interval, though during a Pass, the Weyrs might protect a few prospective areas for future development. (Except during First Pass, when both Weyrs and Holds were being developed in tandem.)

After a Pass, a lot of younger sons would be eager to take up their land allotment and start farming it. With no Thread to fight, the nearest Weyr would probably provide a few blue and green riders to ferry building materials and other supplies to the new holdings in return for a tithe of produce or marks (saved up during the Pass). After a few good harvests, a leader would need to be chosen, presumably the person who had contributed most to the success (profitability) of the hold. This person would only be the Holder, not a Lord Holder --- in fact the land might still be considered as an outlying part of an existing minor or major Hold.

Apart from Torik, I don't recall any actual mention of a simple Holder being promoted to minor or major holder or Lord Holder. It must have happened at various times, as the population increased.
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