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Old Jul 13 2009, 08:40 PM   #121
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

I wonder just how long even those well kept *Harper* records would have been usable. But I would think that part of the Harper Archivist continuous jobs, would have been to recopy the oldest records, before they detiorated beyond being ledgible.

But those other ones, those left behind in the old Wyer's, really had to stink...PHEW
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Old Jul 14 2009, 02:45 AM   #122
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

Absolutely Maelin, a huge chunk of apprentice learning goes into copying As in the cloisters and monasteries of old Terra. Many is the hour an apprentice archivist, and even journeyman archivist has to spend on copying old records.

Speaking of Earth, when prepared and stored well, hides - as opposed to paper - can be kept almost indefinitley. I personally have held and seen hides over 1000 years old and they were in perfect state! OK, the attached seals weren't but since they are/were attached on chords that as to be expected.
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Old Jul 14 2009, 06:29 PM   #123
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Post Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

In DF when F'lar was having the other Weyrs' records they were sometime quite musty and moldy, he was hoping to find how the early ones were keep 'readable".

I am recalling: Moreta Dragonlady of Pern
  • Also some of them were lost, from fire, or other natural events. Like losing part of Fort Weyr bowl.
  • Also not having someone to keep up with recording of the older records.
    Here I am recall the MasterHealer Apprentice's notes, for the hide was 30 Turns or more old.
  • In the Fishermastercrafthall the maps were from pic taken from the ships in orbit, when folks first came to Pern was lost too.

Also in RoP in Telgar Hold the maps on plastic film.
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Old Aug 10 2009, 12:43 AM   #124
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

As far as clothing styles go, I think of the dragonrider clothing being similar to a modified aviator outfit. I picture tall boots, leather trousers, and a fleece lined coat. The headgear would have simple goggles (probably not very high quality as glass is difficult to manufacture) and a thick leather helmet that covers the entire head, with maybe a few holes or slits for breathing.

For clothing on the Southern Continent, I think that people would go around scantily clad at times, but most of the time would try to cover up to avoid sunburn. I don't remember whether it is described this way, or whether it is simply my own mental picture, but in the scenes that take place on the Southern Continent in The White Dragon, I picture loose linen shirts, loose trousers, and tall boots, though I could imagine that they would frequently walk around barefoot. Oh, and some would probably wear some kind of brimmed hat. It may just be my own personal experiences (I am a redhead and I burn easily within minutes of sun exposure, no tanning) but I think that at least some of the inhabitants of Southern would try to keep covered up.

I think that the Lord Holders are more likely to wear rich, somewhat Medieval-looking garb, but more for the purpose of looking royal, than out of a sense of normalcy. I think most other hold members would wear fairly simple, near-modern clothing, but adjusted for the technology available. I picture the men wearing button-up shirts in natural tones, but not as cleanly made as modern clothing, due to a lack of machine manufacturing. I think that leather features largely in men's clothing, and, more obviously, in shoes. I think that working women are slightly more likely to wear trousers than women with status, but the fairly strict societal roles of women make me think that it is uncommon outside of the crafts (where women aren't all that common anyway). I agree with others who have said that most hold women probably wear simple dresses that don't get in the way of work.
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Old Aug 13 2009, 11:01 PM   #125
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

I agree, Corinth, except on the glass goggles. Remember that the Norist was credited with making a fine clear glass with a beautiful tinted Harper Blue base for the Master-Harper. The only problem reported in making glass was with medical glass due to the curved surfaces and took a long time to polish without distortions (as reported by the MasterSmith). Glass was still a fine art and could easily make round lenses, which are rolled out and not blown as is used it glassware, bottles and such. Just my op.
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Old Aug 14 2009, 06:12 PM   #126
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

Dragonrider's fighting leathers.
A thick leather helmet that covers the entire head with build in earmuffs
And a thick scarf to keep the cold air out. SoP and DE/RSR.
A pair of thick leather lined finger gloves.
A wide thick belt with rings to connect the the rider to his fight/riding leather braided straps harness DE/RSR.
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Old Aug 15 2009, 02:22 AM   #127
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

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I agree, Corinth, except on the glass goggles. Remember that the Norist was credited with making a fine clear glass with a beautiful tinted Harper Blue base for the Master-Harper. <snip>
I totally forgot about that.

Sometimes I forget that they didn't lose all advanced crafting techniques.
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Old Aug 15 2009, 04:28 PM   #128
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2cent Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

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I totally forgot about that.

Sometimes I forget that they didn't lose all advanced crafting techniques.
Didn't it take a bit to re-find it. DQ and Master Wansor (sp)

Also its part of the reason for spreading out the crafts and why some crafts don't have a hall for they are too comment. Baker or message runners two crafts as an example of a rank told but with no colors told about. Or badge for that matter.
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Old Sep 15 2009, 12:29 PM   #129
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

Wasn't there something in DQ, perhaps, where Lessa is wishing they could hurry up and get those "eye shields" worked out? (I'm thinking DQ because that's when F'lar gets ash in the face.)
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Old Sep 15 2009, 06:51 PM   #130
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

I believe you are right, Brenda. I just figure it to be one of those "oops" where a semi-simple piece of head gear has to be "re-learned". The speed of flying thread would be much faster than a normal cruise. Tearing eyes would be a real problem in a speed run.
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Old Sep 16 2009, 02:25 PM   #131
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2cent Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

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Wasn't there something in DQ, perhaps, where Lessa is wishing they could hurry up and get those "eye shields" worked out? (I'm thinking DQ because that's when F'lar gets ash in the face.)
Also its when two rider get threadscorded in the face too.
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Old Jun 15 2012, 11:26 AM   #132
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Blue Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

I have long ponderd this subject. There is amsall mention of Moresta wearing a wrap around skirt over her breeches. Bt the books area bit vague.
I myself favour victorian style male riding gear for the dragon riders
But the Lords and Ladies would surely have frock coats and bustles. Fine silks and velvet Cravats.

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Old Jun 15 2012, 11:29 AM   #133
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A secondary thought
I love making clothes for my Koala bears
Maybe we should discuss Dragon decorations. I don't just mean saddles and reins But perhaps jewelled caps for wing tips or fancy collars
What say you all?
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Old Jun 15 2012, 01:16 PM   #134
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushie View Post
I have long ponderd this subject. There is amsall mention of Moresta wearing a wrap around skirt over her breeches. Bt the books area bit vague.
I myself favour victorian style male riding gear for the dragon riders
But the Lords and Ladies would surely have frock coats and bustles. Fine silks and velvet Cravats.

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Beware The light at the end of the tunnel maybe an Approaching Dragon
Does Pern even have silk? I wouldn't think silkworms would be a particularly important import, and they are very high maintenance. This may be addressed earlier in the thread - I haven't read it all.

Victorian clothing is ridiculously complicated. Corsets are impractical on sooooo many fronts, as are any other garments that would call for metal for more than a simple buckle. Realistically, Pernese garments run high to tied and buttoned closures, conserving metal for critical uses. Remember that the Lords and Ladies are very much involved in the day to day running of their Holds, including working in still rooms, directing kitchen staff, leading ground crews, and more. You are not going to have High Society Balls and the like. It just isn't practical. And the majority of Victorian colothing went out of style for a reason: it is exceptionally high-maintenance and difficult to manufacture.

Quote:
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A secondary thought
I love making clothes for my Koala bears
Maybe we should discuss Dragon decorations. I don't just mean saddles and reins But perhaps jewelled caps for wing tips or fancy collars
What say you all?
Uhm... no. The idea of putting a collar on a dragon would be repungent, especially since collars are used on whers and in the 9th Pass whers are viewed with great derision by dragonriders. And again, wasteful of metals.
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Old Jun 15 2012, 01:43 PM   #135
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

Re green being unlucky --- there's already an old superstition (at least in Britain) against wearing green at weddings, and Lessa was talking about green being unlucky the same day she and F'lar wore green to Asgenar's and Famira's wedding.

ISTR green dye used to be made using a toxic ingredient and so green fabric needed to be washed a few times before it was safe to wear. Wedding clothes would probably be too new to be safe, so there might be a few deaths or illnesses after the wedding. The feeling that green was unlucky might linger after the cause had been forgotten --- in fact the green dye used on Pern might not be harmful at all.

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Old Jun 15 2012, 02:22 PM   #136
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ISTR green dye used to be made using a toxic ingredient and so green fabric needed to be washed a few times before it was safe to wear. Wedding clothes would probably be too new to be safe, so there might be a few deaths or illnesses after the wedding. The feeling that green was unlucky might linger after the cause had been forgotten --- in fact the green dye used on Pern might not be harmful at all.
Interesting, but a bit of a stretch to apply it to Pern. I prefer the simpler option: the Pernese already have a very good reason for thinking green an unlucky colour. You know, that icky grey stuff that falls from the sky and eats all the greenery...
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Old Jun 16 2012, 05:43 AM   #137
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushie View Post
A secondary thought
I love making clothes for my Koala bears
Maybe we should discuss Dragon decorations. I don't just mean saddles and reins But perhaps jewelled caps for wing tips or fancy collars
What say you all?
I think it would deoend on what the dragon would accept being put on it, and remember, it would either have to be easy to remove quickly, or something that would not be dangerous in flight or would impede flight..and I think jewelled wing caps might count.

Maybe some sort of jerwelled or gilded cloth could be used on a dragon's neck...not quite a collar, and it wouldn't necessarily get in the way as a dragon has a lot of neck unused by the rider. Perhaps a head covering, a bit like horses are smetimes portrayed with in medieval times. I also seem to recall in one of Todd's books at least, (Dragon's Blood?) that one queen's riding harness had decorative metal buckles and hinging?

However, I think a big problem with decorative items for dragons is that the weyrs rely on tithes, and what is tithed (cloth, metal, jewels) likely has to be used more practically. Although a rider coud invest in dyed leather for their fighting straps, and a talented rider could tool the leather of their straps...but that might also weaken it, a bad idea for safety equipment (but I don't know if it does, does anyone work with leather or know if decorating it weakens it?)

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Old Jun 16 2012, 08:16 PM   #138
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Default Re: 9th Pass Pern clothing

Tooling leather won't hurt it, unless you do it badly.

I can see the Pernese women wearing STAYS. They're practical as back support. Most corsets in history were more this type--the extreme wasp waist was only in vogue a short time and only possible because of the invention of steel boning (whalebone is the other material you really need for a really good corset-whalebone stays eventually mold to the wearer and customize themselves.) Female dragonriders, though, couldn't even wear stays as they're not very practical for riding. (You can wear a corset while riding aside, but a well-fitted one cut for it, and on a horse you're not going to need as much freedom of movement as you would flying thread.)

Bustles, bumrolls, farthingales, hoops, crinolines all have a few disadvantages that make them pretty unlikely (except maybe padded rolls on the hips, if there was a point in high lord and lady fashions for an hourglass figure.) They're not as highly restrictive to wear as moderns think, but bustled later 19th-century clothes have the particular disadvantage that to be worn comfortably, the involve a LOT of separate pieces, require help to get into, take a LOT of fabric, notions, and in some cases metal, to make, and they were generally worn by women who were not going to be doing much more than walking, sitting, and at most doing light handwork (needlepoint, for example.) There's a reason even the wealthiest women had day dresses or tea gowns that required a lot less work to get into.
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