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Old May 8 2005, 07:10 PM   #1
Pat69La
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Smile Dragon Size and Dragon Eggs

I just finished reading a most facinating book called "Dragonolgy-The Complete Book of Dragons" by Dr. Ernest Drakes.
Of course, Pern Dragons were not memtioned, but it did cover all of Earth's legendary 'Dragons'. It coveres everything that is 'known' or 'Supposed' about the Earth's 'Dragons'. According to the book, they come in different sizes & shapes and were found in a number of countries around the world (mostly before and during the Early Middle Ages).
There were a number of drawings. One was about the different sizes of the different Dragons (one Dragon was 20 ft. tall and was measured against a average male human of 5'9"). Another drawing showed mottled Dragon Eggs at different times during the gestation right up to hatching.
I made copies of these drawings and saved them on my computer, but when I tried to "Copy & Paste" them here, the 'Editor' on the browser would not allow the 'Paste'. Sorry. The drawings were really cool, too!

Has anyone else read any non-Pern Dragon books?
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Old May 8 2005, 10:08 PM   #2
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I read "Dragon's Bait", I can't remember the author, but it was great! I've re-read it several times. I also look at dragon pics in lots of other books. The dragons from the Dungeons and Dragons game are really good, I look in the D&D book of dragons just to see the pictures. I even have the D&D dragon species poster (I'm not a D&D fanatic though , I just like the dragons, they look awsome!). I look mostly for artistic purposes, the book has a complete diagram of the dragons' skeletal and muscular systems, and shows them at the different stages of their lives, it even has behavioral patterns; I recommend it to anyone interested in dragon art.
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Old May 9 2005, 11:05 AM   #3
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i have read dragonology. i got it for christmas.
hhas anyone read the Jane yolen dragon pits books?
Heart's Blood, and sending of dragons, dragon's Blood. (not sure what order)
there is a different series i read too, can't think of the second book, but the first book is either the flight of the dove or the sign of the dove. hey now i think i remember on of the other books. dragon's kyn? i think.
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Old May 9 2005, 09:18 PM   #4
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I read Dragon's Kyn too! I found it in the high school library and I LOVED it, except for the part where they killed poor Flaggra .
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Old May 10 2005, 09:38 PM   #5
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yeah. i'm using parts of it for inspiration for my book. i'm also analyzing other young writers. ever read eragon by chris paolini?
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Old May 11 2005, 10:47 PM   #6
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The name's familiar, but I haven't read it. I used the telepathy in []s idea from DK for the novel I'm writing, though I already had in mind the story I wanted to tell, I just needed a way to show the difference between thoughts and telepathy and that seemed like a very good one. I'll have to check the library for Eregon; what's it about?
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Old May 21 2005, 09:54 AM   #7
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about an ordiary kid who lives with his uncle. he's out hunting one day, and find what turns out to be dragon's egg. there is only one other lving dragon besides his, and it's an evil one who killed all the other dragons adn thier riders. there are two more eggs left, and he has to train and make sure those don't fall into the wrong hands. book 2 is coming out in august. it's called eldest, book tow of the unheritance trilogy.
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Old May 21 2005, 09:57 AM   #8
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i've also read a (non-dragon related but still really good) book by a 15 year old girl. (it's translated from french. i don't speak the language) its really inspirational, especially for girls. It's called the phrophesy of the stones by flavia bujor(can't say i spelled the last nameright, though)
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Old May 22 2005, 10:42 PM   #9
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Sounds like a good read. Unfortunately, the school library is now closed and my town is to small, cheap, and dim-witted to have a public library, so it'll have to wait 'till next year. I just hope they have it.
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Old Sep 18 2005, 01:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larra Dragonrider
i have read dragonology. i got it for christmas.
hhas anyone read the Jane yolen dragon pits books?
Heart's Blood, and sending of dragons, dragon's Blood. (not sure what order)
there is a different series i read too, can't think of the second book, but the first book is either the flight of the dove or the sign of the dove. hey now i think i remember on of the other books. dragon's kyn? i think.
read jane yolen bragons books there gonna be another one don't know when. I read dragonlolgy come to think of it i have two copies of the book somewhere in the house
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Old Sep 26 2005, 10:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat69La

Has anyone else read any non-Pern Dragon books?

I have Jo Walton's _Tooth & Claw_ on order from Amazon, but it won't arrive for a few weeks yet - just waiting on other items in my order. I'll let you know what I think of it once I've read it, but I've got high hopes it'll be pretty good.
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Old Sep 27 2005, 03:59 PM   #12
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drat I think I left the book at home-or its packed still but I've got a book of shot stories-some better than others containing dragons-will post when I find it.

I remember an AWFUL pair of books I read a few years back-brilliant idea-ATROTIOUS writing- I remember the 2nd was called Dragonsbane-at least I think it was!
I remember them more as a good idea gone to waste!
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Old Feb 4 2006, 11:22 PM   #13
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Dragonology, Eragon, Eldest (the sequel to Eragon), The Fire Within (Chris d"Lacey). I have seen (but not read) the dragonology handbook, the one about baby dragons and all the sequels to the fire within.
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Old Jan 22 2007, 07:18 PM   #14
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hey i also have read dragonology and personly thinks it great
and that its even more proof that drgons existed
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Old Jan 22 2007, 07:22 PM   #15
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i read alot of dragon books
and a expert on dragons
i acuatly want to write a book for dragons
involving alot of research
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Old Jan 23 2007, 01:45 PM   #16
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Eregon / Eldest...although Christpher Paolini really needs to up his game if people are going to buy the third book. It's rather predictable. 'Foiling the Dragon' by Sarah someone. -Thinks- I've got 'The Dragon King of Mystara' on my shelf waiting to be read after DragonHolder however...^^

I studied Dragonology and Draconology (There's a difference...which I didn't know before I started researching...^^; ) for about three/four years before my memory stick decided to go on vacation and I lost all the work from it...so now I'm in the process of doing it again.

I've heard of that book by Drake, though I'm careful about reading such books because 99% of such books are mere author-fabrication instead of researched data. (Not that I have anything against such books, I just have no need of them).
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Old Jan 23 2007, 10:52 PM   #17
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"Researched data"? Isn't everything about dragons author fabrication? Or do you mean a history of dragon myth etc. through the ages?
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Old Jan 23 2007, 11:19 PM   #18
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Author fabrication? It's entirely dependant on how imaginative and openminded you are. When you take into consideration the fact that every culture on the planet...not a few, some, or many but all...have dragons mentioned in their myths and legends and stories, you have to consider the possabillity of their existance.

My closeminded-self says they didn't exist and are entirely a mutualistic coincidence among mankind.

My openminded-self says they built the pyramids and Stonehinge, got pissed because we didn't respect their craftiness, and left.
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Old Jan 23 2007, 11:32 PM   #19
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My actually-took-college-science self says that at the very most, it's a primal memory of the megafauna. (And my has-a-degree-in-anthropology self would say you should be very careful about saying ALL cultures have dragons in their mythology? Do the Yanomamo? Kalahari bushmen? How many are cases of spontaneous generation of the mythology and how many are matters of cultural sharing? Does this only work if you stretch the definition of dragon until it's so thin you can see through it?)

Dragons aren't real, and as Spiff said, everything about them is author fabrication.
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Old Jan 23 2007, 11:49 PM   #20
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Do the Yanomamo? Kalahari bushmen? How many are cases of spontaneous generation of the mythology and how many are matters of cultural sharing?"

First...I'm not interested enough to hunt up who the Yanamamo are, but the Kalahari cultures, like every other African culture, all share a similar example of a dragon in their mythology.

Second...define "dragon". The definition can not really be "stretched" as there are so many descriptions that any "mythical lizard/snake" can fit.

Third...you're taking yourself, and this discussion, far, far too seriously. Lighten up.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 12:13 AM   #21
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Hey, I'd LOVE to believe dragons were real. But seriously, going only by the existence of dragons in the majority of cultures in the world is not nearly enough for me to believe they were real. It's a curious fact, but completely inconclusive. Not every culture is completely isolated. They can overlap and dribble into others. As Anareth put it, cultural sharing.

Why is it that there are zero remains of any of them? My guess is that some may have found partial dinosaur remains and built a mythical creature around it. Others just used their imagination.

Pyramids and stonehenge are wonders to be true. But at least they are THERE to see, so we KNOW that they exist and that somehow human ingenuity built them. Dragons have no support beyond myth and culture.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 12:23 AM   #22
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haha good lord...you're all apparently devoid of humor tonight...

I stand by my theory that dragons built stonehinge and pyramids...mt everest, too...then moved somewhere else. I'm leaning toward Saturn.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 01:08 AM   #23
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Ok, please tell that THAT is a lighthearted comment? I'm not quite sure what you're getting at...

It just seemed to me that you were suggesting that dragons COULD have suggested... so I commented. If by "open-minded" you mean whimsically imagining, then I'm sorry I took it so seriously, but I thought you meant actually willing to accept the idea.

I have a whole lot to say if you actually were serious about the dragons-building-pyramids thing.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 01:13 AM   #24
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...oh...my god...
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Old Jan 24 2007, 01:21 AM   #25
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This is going to be one of those things that I'll carry on for the rest of my stay here...I'll make an effort to illuminate some of the members' inabillity to pick up on sarcasm without the use of construction paper, magic markers, and scissors.

Come on...built the pyramids AND moved to Saturn?! One or the other, okay, but both?! That's just stupid...


~off to find pen and parchment to doodle me up a dragon building a pyramid...
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Old Jan 24 2007, 03:40 AM   #26
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I've read Dragonsbane (godaweful!), the entire Dragonology series, Dragon's Son and Mistress of Dragons by Margaret Weis, The Inheritance trilogy, Dragonsight and Dragonkeeper and Garden of the Purple Dragon
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Old Jan 24 2007, 03:48 AM   #27
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makenzie71 - I'm afraid you underestimate the number of nutters on the internet!

You don't have all that many posts here yet, so people may not quite know what to make of you, or how seriously they should take what you post. Try demonstrating your common sense a bit more widely before making remarks like that. And besides, sarcasm is best when delivered with subtlety, not with a sledgehammer.


But don't worry - I won't be taking you seriously. Your comments about fanfic saw to that quite comprehensively....
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Old Jan 24 2007, 04:49 AM   #28
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Quote:
My openminded-self says they built the pyramids and Stonehinge, got pissed because we didn't respect their craftiness, and left.
ha ha Yeah ya know it wasn't too subtle, but I wouldn't have considered it "sledgehammer" material. Anyone who took that seriously, though, needs to either:

a: sleep

~or~

b: establish a connection with real life

My opinion on people's fan-fic writing (continuing existing characters), though, can be taken seriously. It's such a shame to waste good literary skill on stuff like that when you could be creating your own characters or, even better, your own world. Opinion, though, and I don't grudge people for having other views. Different topic entirely, however...

~haha I should have mentioned something about how duct tape can't possibly hold the universe together...
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Old Jan 24 2007, 06:00 AM   #29
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Oh, I don't think anyone really took what you said seriously, but unfortunately those posts were dragging YOU down with them!


Quote:
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My opinion on people's fan-fic writing (continuing existing characters), though, can be taken seriously. It's such a shame to waste good literary skill on stuff like that when you could be creating your own characters or, even better, your own world. Opinion, though, and I don't grudge people for having other views. Different topic entirely, however...
Yeah, it's off-topic - but have you considered how useful fanfic can be to an aspiring author such as myself? I know my writing is a long, long way from perfect, and I do have my own worlds/characters. Fanfic is a fantastic way of developing the necessary skills - not just adequate grammar, but characterisation, pacing, plot, depth, and all those other things that can raise a story above the rest of the slush-pile. Yeah, you can do that just as well writing within your own world, but it's much harder to get feedback from a wide range of readers, and it also allows you to focus on one specific aspect of your writing at a time, without losing the readers in a morass of unfamiliar characters and settings.

Secondly, it's a fun way of exploring an established world. For me, my current major project is the big gap between Dragonsdawn and the subsequent 1st pass stories. The next one will be figuring out what really motivated Kylara, but that's probably 2008's project. It'll be fun, and I'll learn from it. I'm not yet ready to take the plunge with my own writing yet - but thanks to this fandom, I'm a heck of a lot closer than I was a few years ago.

Anyway, back on topic - earlier in this thread I mentioned Walton's "Tooth and Claw". Having read it, I'd now recommend it very highly indeed. And while you're at the bookshop, don't forget to pick up her "Farthing" as well.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 07:14 AM   #30
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Ok, to clarify, the first comment you made I didn't realize you were referring to dragons. I kind of skimmed that sentence and thought you meant how even today we wonder how the heck they managed it, and since there's mystery and wonder in that, why not dragons? Yeah, should've read more carefully But then you went on to say the possibility of their existence with dragons being in so many cultures... it seemed like you were taking that seriously, so I got confused with the ridiculous comment about building Mt. Everest and moving to saturn...

Quote:
Anyone who took that seriously, though, needs to either:

a: sleep
That'd be the one... currently 5:14 AM


Anyway, sorry for the mixup
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Old Jan 24 2007, 07:36 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by makenzie71 View Post
First...I'm not interested enough to hunt up who the Yanamamo are, but the Kalahari cultures, like every other African culture, all share a similar example of a dragon in their mythology.

Second...define "dragon". The definition can not really be "stretched" as there are so many descriptions that any "mythical lizard/snake" can fit.

Third...you're taking yourself, and this discussion, far, far too seriously. Lighten up.
Here you are, less than ten seconds found this and I just clicked on Wikipedia- I could look them up for you if you want. I'm a physicist not an anthropologist but I've got 10 fingers, a brain and an internet browser!

If you go on making these sorts of comments of course you'll get negativ comments back!

I haven't a clue what you do for a living, and, seeing what you've written here I'm not sure that I want to know but when somebody who has studied something corrects you I'd listen, it's what learning's about!

This is, if you'd look, a relatively serious discussion so of course people will be making serious comments!

You're beginning to sound like a very narrow-minded person, and I despise narrow-mindedness (something to do with the fact that it's a fascinating world out there and so many people just don't look!), so, prove me wrong by being pleasant and sensible and fun in the right place or, and I rarely say this, shut up!
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Old Jan 24 2007, 07:39 AM   #32
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What Kath said Makenzie
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Old Jan 24 2007, 10:47 AM   #33
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Again, you have my appologies for not making myself entirely clear.

Of course, dragons as we understand them are mythical beasts and therefore yes, author fabrication. -Rubs forehead- I was merely going on precedent and about how certain cultures have always seemingly viewed their 'subspecies' of dragon to be. (I do hope I'm making sense).

I'll be sure to allow myself time to re-read posts before I apply them to boards next time.

I hear there's an entirely new 'Dragonology' series coming out soon, or has recently been published. I'll have to look up the name of the author, but I think there's going to be 7 or 8 books in the entire collection.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 10:55 AM   #34
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Your book idea sounds interesting- I read a book on the history of the dragon in writing once with all the different "types" including things like wyverns and wyrms, it'd be nice to read another.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 11:42 AM   #35
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Hi, Makenzie71 (please tell me that's not your birthday...)

In case you didn't get it--the internet is a written medium. Sarcasm is frequently best conveyed using inflection and facial expressions. The closest we get to those are these: etc. So since you give no indication of whether or not you're serious, we kind of have to assume you are.

And I assumed you were being hyperbolic about Stonehenge, etc. At least I hoped you were.

And especially given the advent of Google--advertising your ignorance just makes you look, well, ignorant. And a bit lazy.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 02:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Here you are, less than ten seconds found this and I just clicked on Wikipedia- I could look them up for you if you want. I'm a physicist not an anthropologist but I've got 10 fingers, a brain and an internet browser!
10 seconds with google and I find half a dozen references of Yanamamo myth that have a giant, spiritual crocadilian serpent...the purpose of said serpent, I've no idea nor enough care to find out.

Big magical lizard, though? Sounds like a dragon to me. Similar to all the other indiginous South American cultures.

You also need to check out what "narrow-minded" really means.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 02:34 PM   #37
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my dear young man, I don't CARE how old you are you ARE acting as if you are four- a crocodillian serpent isn't a dragon! Read up on South American fauna-there's a large crocodile like serpent called a caiman, which is large!could this crocodillian serpent be one of those? It COULD be a dragon or it could be like in Egyption culture where there are dragons but also crocodiles.
It might be a dragon, it might not!
What I was upset over is that somebody knowledgeable in a subject offered you some information and you were too lazy to look it up as well as laughing at her contributions. THAT is what I meant by narrow-mindedness, like I said I am not an anthropologist but I do have an interest in finding out as much as I can about as many things as I can!
If you don't have an interest in this why are you posting in this thread?
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Old Jan 24 2007, 02:49 PM   #38
makenzie71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edith View Post
It might be a dragon, it might not!
And then we're back to you needing to define dragon for us.

Also, I know what a caiman is, but the mythologies say the "crocadillian serpent" is "magical". A spiritual beast having god-like powers. The last caimans I've seen, though they were in captivity at the St. Louis and Colorado Springs zoos, really didn't seem too mythical/magical. I might have missed it, though...maybe it was my headdress.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 02:58 PM   #39
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Default Re: Dragon Size and Dragon Eggs

what I mean is that magical animals/ demons/ Gods/ whatever appear in many forms ie in Ancient Egypt- Anareth's the anthropologist so she'll have more examples than me, so a magic cocodile could be seperate from a dragon or it could be the same. Has anyone defined a dragon? If you're not careful you could end up calling a ghecko a dragon because it's scaly and cold-blooded.
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Old Jan 24 2007, 03:06 PM   #40
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Not geckos. Real dragons are warm-blooded.
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