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Old Dec 30 2008, 06:59 PM   #1
D. M. Domini
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Default Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

I don't know about you guys, but my favorite DRoP books are Dragonflight, Dragonquest, The White Dragon, All The Weyrs of Pern, and the Harper Hall trilogy. And I was sort of idly thinking, if there were more things set in 9th Pass Pern (which I'm guessing is doubtful at this point, although I may be wrong there), what would I like to see?

Dolphins of Pern was sort of "eh" to me. I didn't really latch onto "the thing" that was supposed to make it interesting...mainly, the speaking dolphins. Skies of Pern was also sort of "eh"...the giant meteor of doom and dragonriders becoming astronomers seemed a bit boring after the excitement of Dragonflight and the rest of the early books.

To be honest, I think it's really hard to keep stories in the 9th Pass kicking when you de-fang the danger to Pern by ending Thread, and Dragonriders sort of lose their reason to exist.

One of the things that always interested me from the series though, and wasn't really explored, was Lessa's powers, and thoughts of exactly how far each individual dragonrider's psychic talents went. It's hinted that all dragonriders are psychic to a greater or lesser extent, but it never goes into great detail. Skies sort of approached this idea from the dragon's end of things...dragons gain the ability to use their telekinesis consciously. But surely isn't the development of conscious psychic powers in the Dragonrider community something that might set up the scene for a really interesting set of post-9th-Pass books? More interesting, I would think, than watching for meteors in the sky?

When all those details about psychic powers are present in the books, from day one, why didn't AMC go in that direction, post-ATWoP? She gave Robinton his own book after he had morphed from a "spear carrier" to a major supporting character. She went back and filled in Moreta's story...almost twice even, with Nerilka being set in the same era. And there's Dragonsdawn, exploring the early days of the planet's origin. It's not like she's oblivious to the themes she's putting in her own books, the "anne-consistencies" us nit-picky fans find or no.

So why no development of psychic dragonriders in the 9th Pass? The only thing I could really conclude was that it would cause Pern to tread too closely on two different series. First, AMC's own Talent series. I guess, why would she want to do the same concept twice? Even if you could get some really interesting twists by having younger dragonriders developing their *own* psychic powers in addition to their dragons, and Holders suddenly getting all antsy that the soon-to-be-obsolete dragonriders are "desperately" trying to cement their future in some way by using their Scary Mind Control Powers? Of course, this sort of mirrors the situation in To Ride Pegasus, and Pegasus in Flight; bring psychics to Pern, and you have Pern suddenly competing with the Talent series, and possibly one or both "losing". The other series that this sort of plot-turn would bring Pern into conflict with is Darkover. Darkover is all about being a lost colony with psychic people, a medieval or feudal-type society, and Terran re-contact. Therefore, any attempt to introduce widespread psychic powers (and/or re-contact with Earth on Pern) is going to inevitably bring Pern into direct comparison with Darkover...and possibly not favorably. The biggest crit against this, no matter how good this hypothetical book would or wouldn't be written, would be "Pern has devolved to Darkover-imitation" or the like. (You could also argue it would make Pern like Valdemar too, as Heralds are usually psychic and know how to use their abilities, and they are mind-linked to their Companions.)

So if you rule out contact-with-earth, and dragonriders-discovering-their-inner-Lessa, it limits you hugely unless you A) jump forward in time by a couple of hundred years to develop a new cast of mains, or B) break the "no contact with earth" rule by giving Pern contact with, say, aliens. (they're not from Earth, right?) Which would sort of be a sneaky way to go around your own rule, from an author standpoint.

I can't help but think that AMC has probably thought about this, and this is why we saw dragon-psychic-abilities being developed, but never the rider's abilities. But that being said...dragonriders being psychic is still a fecund avenue to explore, and is supported in canon--ie, you wouldn't be inserting something into Pern out of the blue. And you'd think it would be as much as a shock to Pern society as technology was...a good driver of conflict. And all stories need conflict.

#

Ok. So enough with the Meta.

How psychic do you guys think each dragonrider is? And do you think that Queen and Bronzeriders would be more "strongly" psychic than the other colors, or no? Do you think any other psychic gift other than telepathy/empathy is present in the dragonrider population? Do you think that the all-consuming dragon/rider bond might suppress a rider independently manifesting their own abilities, unless they are like Lessa, who was using her abilities pre-Impression?
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Old Dec 31 2008, 09:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

I know this has been discussed before, but can't remember where - either here, NKT or OKT.

One of the theories was that Lessa developed her powers because of the situation she was in. She wanted revenge, she wanted Ruatha to fall under its new management, she was naturally "Talented" in the first place, ergo she developed her powers.

I, personally have a theory that all of the HADs have the same degree of ability as Lessa does - Brekke would also be able to 'lean' on people, or influence them in subtle ways. The difference here is that she never needed to. (I did sort of touch on this in my fanfic, "The Guilt of Forever" which I think is posted here somewhere. Not that fanfic makes canon. Just that I had that theory.)

That could be an interesting avenue to explore - since Brekke is dragonless, she is ripe for some major conflict from elsewhere. Remove F'nor, and you could have her developing latent abilities. (My problem with any of my stories is lact of conflict. I really need to read Goals, Motivation and Conflict. It's sitting on my bookcase, ready to read!)

Because most of the highly psychic people on Pern are going to have their dragons with them, there probably is no reason for them to develop anything else. What we need is another Lessa - someone, male or female, who does not grow up with dragons within easy access, and having a reason - whether it be a good reason or bad reason - to develop those powers. Even if the conflict is self induced - say, a cotholder's son who feels that everyone is dumping on him, even if that is not the case. We see people like that in society today - those who feel the world owes them, when all they need to do is grab the brass ring themselves.

Not that you have the time to explore this avenue of thought at the moment, but if/when you do, I'd love to bounce ideas back and forth.
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Old Jan 1 2009, 05:21 AM   #3
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Hmm, strangely enough the so called psychic powers are the bit of Pern that least interest me and feel out of place.

They are returning (double) in some of Todd's books, especially the last, with indications that it is something inherent in Weyrwomen and weyrwomen, and I must admit it is one of the things that irk and irritate me.
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Old Jan 1 2009, 06:23 AM   #4
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Personally think that if the talent aspect needs to be explored further, for example more of F'lessan and Tai's dragons using the other aspects of "Talent" then yes. And perhaps include more of other storylines such as Readis and his "dolphins" as well, whether they managed to get "telephones" in besides the radio etc as some storylines were mentioned but didn't go further then just a few paragraphs....
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Old Jan 1 2009, 07:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Hans - out of curiosity, can you elaborate?

I just see it pop up so many times across so many Pern stories...Lessa of course, F'lar (and I think F'nor) being able to sense it. Menolly being awoken by her fair (you could admittedly argue that that was more the fair imposing on her than any latent empathy talent). Brekke being HAD, Aramina being HAD. The stuff in DDawn about some colonists having a bit of empathy in their blood, and with AIVAIS (sp? can never get it right) "knowing" that if dragons can go between and are telepathic, they should exhibit telekinesis as well...which shows up later in SoP when they're squishing bugs with it. Just made me wonder...with it coming up so many times...why don't we get more detail? What hasn't it turned into a bigger plot point? And thus my meta post above, haha.

Shalyn -

Quote:
Not that you have the time to explore this avenue of thought at the moment, but if/when you do, I'd love to bounce ideas back and forth.
Go for it. Or maybe we should make a big 'ol idea speculation thread in the exhibit hall or something...

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Old Jan 1 2009, 09:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Well here is a bit, both Sorka empathy for animals hurt and Sean had used his abilty to "train" his fair of fire lizards (also Sorka too during threadfall) Paul Benden did think that have the two train fire lizards for ground crewing.

Later on they become the "leaders" of the new "dragonriders of Pern" I don't just mean as Weyrleaders yet, Just for the group of first dragonriders later on as the leaders of the first Weyr on Pern.

When Kitty Ping pick people for Impresion they all had fire lizards/dragonnets "shrug shoulder" They all had an empathy bond with their firends also useful with working with dolphins too.

Later on we have Torene who had HAD she didn't know that till Impression of her dragon and after her first flight with the Queen's Wing didn't tell the Weyrleader in private meeting after that Fall. As for as I reall, most of my books are half packed for the move.

Its found out that the queen find people outside of the Weyr to Impress too, in DE/RSR the Teglar Wyerwoman was Fort-Weyr Breed and from one of first dragonrider bloodline too.

Dose having empthy for animal or human healing aid the dragonrider's bloodline after? Also there are others that have that ability too.
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Old Jan 3 2009, 04:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

D.M. Sorry, I wasn't at all clear on that. What I meant was the psychic/magic powers we don't see regularly, mainly the power Lessa seems to have to influence and "force" people by mindpower (and that Todd gives to every weyrwoman), clairvoyancy, healing with crystals, that stuff.

I just misread your question somewhat and didn't grasp that you meant the "ordinary" psychic powers like telekinesis which is needed by dragons to fly.
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Old Jan 3 2009, 04:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Ah, I see. Yes, I was lumping everything together, possibly due to my knowledge of the Talent series...the two systems seem awfully similar, with the Pern one just not as spelled out as the Talent one.

We've never seen anything like healing with crystals or clairvoyance in the books though (as I recall, unless it was one of Todd's). Wasn't referring to that, just to the talents already hinted at.
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Old Jan 3 2009, 07:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

It were Todd's books, DM
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Old Jan 3 2009, 08:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Sorka also heard Carenath as well as Faranth, but no other dragons. Torene was definitely HAD to the point where her Alaranth had to help block out the mental "noise" from time to time.
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Old Jan 4 2009, 01:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

I always thought that the Weyr search was for those Pernese who had extra empathic abilities and other "talents" as stated in Dragonsdawn. Many of the original colonists (or some anyway) had been or were descended from those who had been worked on by Eridani ....I will have to look for the quote later...I did find a quote (out of context)
Quote:
The Pern expedition had attracted some first rate talents
*snort lol*
but in the Moreta story and in Dragonseye the eidetic memories was mentioned also...The Ruathan who knew the entire lineage of all the horses (was not sent to Harper Hall lest he remember too many indescretions of the Holders)....One of the first verse writers from Dragonseye had the eidetic memory as well....
On the other hand, the dragons were able to keep Aramina from hearing them (it was mentioned that she did not like to hear them so they complied) and some chose to speak to Robinton....
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Old Jan 4 2009, 02:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Please find the quote reference to the Eridani?
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Old Jan 5 2009, 11:08 AM   #13
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

I am still looking for the quote that I referred to in my earlier post...I did find two quotes so far (which go more toward explaining why they left and the war they fought)
Quote:
In order that the colonists could insure the adaptability of Terran animals to Pern,permission to use certain of the advanced biogenetic techniques of the Eridanis-mainly mentasynth, gene pairing, and chromosome enhancements-had been grudgingly granted. . . .The Federated Sentient Planetswanted no further disasters like the bio-alts...
pg 11
On the outing with Pol,Bay, Tillek, Sean and Sorka the following comments were made
(campfire talk)
Quote:
Humans could be improved....Cybernectically we do,and in vitro we can correct certain gross genetic mistakes. Its true that we are allowed to use the Eridani mentasynth, though personally I don't know whether our response to it is a boon or not. It makes people to empathic with their experimental animals.
pge 94
I am still searching (will post more later...I am only adult awake with 3 year old running loose)
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Old Jan 5 2009, 05:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

OK, what thiose quotes say I already knew, they are not saying Eridani techniques were used on humans.
But then, you already said you have not found the quote/text you remember seeing... I hope you will!
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Old Jan 5 2009, 11:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

I think I just remembered incorrectly or misinterpreted what I had read...In the section of the book where Pol and Bay got permission to use mentasynth on Mariah's clutch of 14eggs these comments are made
Quote:
Incorporation of mentasynth,which had originally been developed by the Beltrae, a reclusive Eridani hive culture,sparked latent empathic abilities. Dragonets had already demonstrated such an ability,amounting to an almost telepathic communication with a few people. . .Inspired by the success of the dolphins' mentasynth enhancement, Bay and Pol hoped that the dragonets would come to an even closer empathy with people. Initially,humans from Beltrae who had been "touched"were regarded with great suspicion,of course, but as soon as their remarkable empathic powers with animals and other people were realized,the technique became widespread. Many groups had valued healers whose abilities had been amplified that way.. . ... It had taken many experiments with dragonet tissues and with several generations of the little tunnel snakes,to incorporate the mentasynth system successfully,but longtime experience with such species as dolphins--and of course, man--paid off.
I tried to bold the phrases that may have lead to my interpretation (although I also bolded the comment about tunnel snakes since I did not recall that...are there tunnel snakes that are smarter, more empathic (ala the big cats?) It is also of interest that when thread fell the first time. Sean's native brown dragonets overrode the mentasynth queen --Sorka thought it odd at the time...
I will continue to look but at this point this was the last relative quote I have found....
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Old Jan 6 2009, 03:12 AM   #16
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Hmm, I se where you might be coming from reading this:

Quote:
Many groups had valued healers whose abilities had been amplified that way...
But it is unfortunately not clear whether this refers to the situation on Terra or even to groups of the Beltrae instead of other humans. Somehow it doesn't seem to be pointing to the colonists... not sure about this but it is very interesting. Thank you!
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Old Jan 6 2009, 05:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

To me it sort of reads that humans from Beltrae were the first to be altered to be more empathic, and the rest of the humans were sort of suspicious of it at first, before the benefits came to light. It seems to imply that after those benefits became clear, more humans were altered in such a way. (Possibly also the ones who weren't from Beltrae)

From that passage, I would lean and say yes, due to Pern's multi-cultural heritage there's a good chance that some from Beltrae or made more empathic using Beltraen/Eridani techniques contributed to the genetic pool that Pern's empathically-talented people draw from.

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Old Jan 6 2009, 07:52 AM   #18
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Default Re : Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Was it not stated in DD that the first settlers have been "enhanced" before travelling to Pern? I always assumed the Eridani science was widely used in the society the settlers came from. That must be somewhere, in Kitty Ping's words when she explain briefly what she does with firelizards and dragons. It may come from DoP as well, when we are told how dolphins became talking partners for humans and why they chose to come to Pern.
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Old Jan 6 2009, 08:44 AM   #19
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

That was the quote emeraldrose was looking for, Maleus. And if you can find/prove it...

DM, there is mention of the Halls of the Beltrae elsewhere in the book. On the basis of my memory (can't check now, at work) I disagree with your train of thought. I think it was the Beltrae that had (mastered) this technique and applied it to humans after initial opposition was overcome.

Still no evidence that Pern colonists were "enhanced" in any other than cyborg ways (and you have to take that with some slack as even Paul Benden is called a cyborg while only having some articial stuff in one hand...)
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Old Jan 6 2009, 09:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
DM, there is mention of the Halls of the Beltrae elsewhere in the book. On the basis of my memory (can't check now, at work) I disagree with your train of thought. I think it was the Beltrae that had (mastered) this technique and applied it to humans after initial opposition was overcome.
What?

I don't follow you, Hans, as you sound as you're agreeing with me, although you say you disagree. I'm just not finding the part where you disagree in the rest of your post though, so I'm lost now...or did you just not include that reasoning because you didn't have a quote on hand?

Edit: To re-quote Emaraldrose's quote, here's the part I'm basing my thoughts on...

Quote:
Initially,humans from Beltrae who had been "touched"were regarded with great suspicion,of course, but as soon as their remarkable empathic powers with animals and other people were realized,the technique became widespread. Many groups had valued healers whose abilities had been amplified that way.
Isn't that proof that some humans, speaking in general, *had* been altered? By Eridani techniques?

There's no true-blue proof that any of them or their descendants came to Pern, so yes I'd admit that that's a jump, but it's been said time and time again that Pern's colonists were multi-cultural. Why wouldn't they bring a few humans descended from Beltraean humans along?

Secondly, we know that some of the Pern colonists are empathic, so it's a short logical jump to think that perhaps they were descended from humans that had been enhanced by the Beltrae, who are specifically said in the text to have been enhanced in ways that improve their empathy?

I recall there were restrictions in place on the genetic pool to keep out congenital disorders but was there anything in place that might keep out something considered an enhancement that you might be remembering that I am not?

I have no proof to say that FOR SURE the Pernese showing empathic abilities were enhanced or descended from those enhanced, but then I never claimed that, which is why I said I'm "leaning" earlier. And also why I said the quote above, and my conclusions from it, were interesting.

Edit to the edit: Note, I am NOT saying that the Pernese colonists used the metasynth techniques they used on firelizards on themselves. Or even that any of the colonists were first-generation "enhanced" humans. I think those are doubtful. But a great-great grandfather or grandmother up the line? Yeah, that's plausible I think.
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Old Jan 6 2009, 11:35 AM   #21
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

I thought I would double check the prologue of DF...it mentions that
Quote:
Men and women with high empathy ratings and some innate telepathic ability were trained to use and preserve these unusual animals
(dragons)
high empathy ratings and innate telepathic abilities could be a result of being descended from those humans (Beltrae) and otherwise enhanced or it could just be those of "2nd sight". Anne has a firm belief that she and other members of her family have/had such psychic abilities....
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Old Jan 6 2009, 02:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Yes, it could, but it too much guesswork. They could have those abilities without that descendancy or having been tampered with, just having high ratings. For the dragons they just sought the persons with the hightest empathy ratings they had, logical
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Old Jan 6 2009, 04:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

I'd follow the prologues of several of the books which seems to imply high empathy levels, maybe with a few who had innate telepathic abilities, were required to Impress. But I do believe there was also mention of Eridani techniques. In CoP I believe it says that Torene, like others who had high empathy, was encouraged to spend time around dragons. In Dragonsblood, during the scene with Emily Boll sick from Plague, Wind Blossom does imply that there was Eridani boosting of dragonriders which made them less likely to catch disease in response to Boll's worries about the riders: this alteration seems to be passed on through the generations--even if the original colonists didn't have Eridani alteration, the early dragonriders, and many with dragonriders did as late as the Ninth Pass (In DQ, Lessa mentions that F'lar never gets sick).
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Old Jan 6 2009, 05:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Quote:
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That was the quote emeraldrose was looking for, Maleus. And if you can find/prove it...

DM, there is mention of the Halls of the Beltrae elsewhere in the book. On the basis of my memory (can't check now, at work) I disagree with your train of thought. I think it was the Beltrae that had (mastered) this technique and applied it to humans after initial opposition was overcome.

Still no evidence that Pern colonists were "enhanced" in any other than cyborg ways (and you have to take that with some slack as even Paul Benden is called a cyborg while only having some articial stuff in one hand...)
I don't have the book on hand to search, but I do recall that Kit Ping was the only one mentioned as having been trained by the Eridani. It was through her that Mentasynth was introduced to the Native fire-lizards, their holders, and the dragon embryos they eventually Impressed--and it was from the labs that Ted Tubberman stole it to feed it to his cats.

As far as pre-existing Mentasynth treated colonists, I thought only the dolphins, and maybe there was a mention of a handful of humans but nothing specific, were intentionally treated with such before heading for Pern.

And since Mentasynth is a mutagenic poison, you should expect to see the full psi effects manifest in the children of the 0-generation of Dragonriders. It's only proper that Todd would be fleshing out the heyday of Pern's psionic-enhanced colonists in the 3rd Pass, where Anne had originally introduced Pern well after the decline and fall of such in the 9th Pass.
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Old Jan 6 2009, 10:26 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

My reading of the stories is that Mentasynth was an enhancement that was passed on through each succeding generation, dolphin, human (before the Pure Human League imposed strict genetic manipulation) firelizard and dragon. Kit Ping only allowed it used used on the firelizards and then on the bio-engineering project that produced the dragons. It was already in the blood line of many of the colonists as read in the excerpt from DDawn. The "Push" from Lessa would indicate the strong empathy passed down from the Hanrahan clan, as they all did well with animals and babysitting many of the colony children when thread first started to fall. Just my 2 c's worth.
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Old Jan 6 2009, 10:38 PM   #26
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Question Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. M. Domini View Post
<Sinp>clairvoyance
Would not "seeing" ablity be called that? In both GWHD and RvP too?

Off Topic just a bit of an update here
Just got some time to clean out my e-mail box, and found this thead .

PS Sorry to get back to this thread till now. "Eye and computer problemd have slowed me down big time

My eyes are kinda tired from beeing at the eye dotors for most of the afternoon, and the stress level is somewhat how do I put it making my phyical problem wost, I am still tired from the three or four "attacts" I had yesterday too
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Old Jan 7 2009, 01:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Clairvoyance indeed refers to "present sight".
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Old Jan 7 2009, 02:40 AM   #28
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

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Clairvoyance indeed refers to "present sight".
Thanks I knew Anne had written in the GWHD and not to sure for RvP my copy is gone, too much reading of a "mass publicate paperback"
for its a hole in the collecton just like few others.
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Old Jan 7 2009, 10:07 AM   #29
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

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Originally Posted by Old Hippie View Post
My reading of the stories is that Mentasynth was an enhancement that was passed on through each succeding generation, dolphin, human (before the Pure Human League imposed strict genetic manipulation) firelizard and dragon. Kit Ping only allowed it used used on the firelizards and then on the bio-engineering project that produced the dragons. It was already in the blood line of many of the colonists as read in the excerpt from DDawn. The "Push" from Lessa would indicate the strong empathy passed down from the Hanrahan clan, as they all did well with animals and babysitting many of the colony children when thread first started to fall. Just my 2 c's worth.
Exactly how I read it as well.
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Old Jan 7 2009, 11:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

That is what I thought I had read (that prior to Pure Human Group banning of such the ancestors of some of the colonists (or some of the colonists themselves) may have been enhanced...but I cannot find the "proof". That is why my prior posts all have quotes re:
mentasynth and the Eridani --trying to explain where I got the idea...If anyone else can recall/locate other quotes I would be very happy....
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Old Jan 8 2009, 06:45 PM   #31
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Don't have DDawn handy, but I seem to recall discussion including Emily Boll about how the pure human league restricted tampering of humans to only mentasynth. With Boll remarking that it cut down how many planets could be colonized because the humans couldn't become amphibian and live on pure water worlds. I THINK the discussion was Tillek, Benden and Boll discussing the prohibition on genetic manipulation, but on Fire Lizards, not to the point of desperation to talk to Kitti Ping about making the lizards huge.
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Old Jan 9 2009, 03:47 AM   #32
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Yes, that is to be found In Dragonsdawn but in my memory the Pure Human League thing was in Earth's history, long before the colonists decided to leave Terra.
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Old Jan 10 2009, 09:16 PM   #33
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

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Yes, that is to be found In Dragonsdawn but in my memory the Pure Human League thing was in Earth's history, long before the colonists decided to leave Terra.
Well, we do (did?) have Pure Prairie League (Country/Rock), and The Human League (80's dance)...
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Old Jan 11 2009, 09:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

That's true Hans, but once it's done, it stayed in the genetics. Of course, the "Leauge" was more against the added gills for water worlds or other more radical changes. It was stated that after the enhanced people made great health providers, opposition died down on enhancement. I have my DD book on my desk here and I'll find the page numbers for this discussion.
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Old Jan 11 2009, 11:12 PM   #35
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

For this topic in DD:
Pg. 90, 1st Para
Pg. 103, 4th & 6th Para
Pg. 127, 1st & 2nd Para
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Old Jan 12 2009, 07:25 AM   #36
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Great, Old Hippie, but if you give quotes with page numbers it is imperative to also mention which edition you used as the page numbers are often not the same in hard- and softcover or for US and UK editions.
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Old Jan 12 2009, 07:00 PM   #37
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Opps! Sorry, I forgot. Ya figure a guy whose been in a bunch of different contries would remember something like that! I have the US/Canadian Del Ray paperback (#0-345-36286-1) maybe a 1989 print with Sorka? standing by a cave mouth with firelizards on outstretched arms. Hope that helps.
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Old Jan 13 2009, 03:05 AM   #38
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Yep, perfect
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Old Jan 18 2009, 02:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

Quote:
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Hmm, I se where you might be coming from reading this:



But it is unfortunately not clear whether this refers to the situation on Terra or even to groups of the Beltrae instead of other humans. Somehow it doesn't seem to be pointing to the colonists... not sure about this but it is very interesting. Thank you!
I would say that it makes a lot of sense and is very likely that SOME of the colonists descended from those who had been "touched". It certainly does not give the slightest indication of the colonists in general being descended from them, and that doesn't make any sense anyway, as the colonists were more or less a random collection of people who made a decision to move to a more pastoral form of life on a different planet - there would be no reason whatsoever to think that all or most who signed up were of this descent. It does make sense that some just happened to be by chance, though.

Since the majority of the Pern books deal in the Real World, no magic, no mysticism, no fantasy, just Science Fiction, and since the psychic powers are undoubtedly the most far-fetched and seemingly out of place elements in the Pern books, I think that the explanation of mentasynth tinkering on some of the Pernese' ancestors makes a hell of a lot of sense. That gives a tidy explanation on why such a very few number have any sign at all of heightened empathy, and even fewer have a high level of it, while the majority seems to be completely regular human beings with no psychic abilities whatsoever.
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Old Jan 18 2009, 03:07 PM   #40
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Default Re: Dragonrider Psychic Abilities (or, what openings are left for 9th Pass stories?)

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Yes, it could, but it too much guesswork. They could have those abilities without that descendancy or having been tampered with, just having high ratings. For the dragons they just sought the persons with the hightest empathy ratings they had, logical
Since claims of psychic abilities and telepathy, with present scientific knowledge, are highly dubious, I think your reasoning is very unlikely. Wouldn't it be far more likely and realistic that these people are the ones who had been enhanced, rather than some intrinsic value of "pure" humans, a quality which is probably non-existent? It seems that the mention of the Beltrae and enhanced humans was deliberate, to give a hint at it without having to blatantly spell it out.
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