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View Poll Results: Is Ruth the chihuahua of the dragon world?
Yes, he is! 14 19.72%
No, he isn't! 42 59.15%
Only the purple monkey dishwashers know! 9 12.68%
Fool! He IS a purple monkey dishwasher! 9 12.68%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Jun 21 2006, 04:27 AM   #1
ghyle
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Default Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Is Ruth the chihuahua of the dragon world? Have your say!
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Old Jun 21 2006, 02:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

He's still bigger than the first dragons, I think. Or was that the same size?
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Old Jun 21 2006, 03:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Bigger than Faranth and Carenath, as per AIVAS.
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Old Jun 21 2006, 03:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

He was slightly bigger, but it doesn't say by how much. When AIVAS is showing comparisons between original and modern dragons, T'bor says, "Why, that bronze isn't as big as Ruth."
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Old Jun 24 2006, 03:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

See, since there were even smaller dragons, then Ruth is only a rat-dragon compared to the 9th pass dragons! The first dragons were the true runts.
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Old Jun 24 2006, 06:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I'm not sure that Ruth was actually a runt so much as just a departure from the norm. It might be interesting to follow a "true" runt - a normal-coloured dragon who just happened to be the smallest of his clutch and rather weak and sickly. Ruth was perfectly hale - just small and an odd colour.
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Old Jun 24 2006, 09:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I think Ruth is one of Anne's most thought provoking characters, a real-e-o tru-le-o unique and original being. In some ways he seems to be a runt or possibly a throwback with defects (odd color, asexuality). In other ways he seems more like the ultimate dragon that the ancients engineered so long ago. He is smaller than his contemporaries but that gives him an advantage of agility that most others can't match. He is very strong (able to carry multiple passengers, not to mention that egg) He has amazing stamina and is clearly the smartest dragon ever in many ways. I don't think I would call him a runt, at least not within reach of any dragon or rider.
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Old Jun 26 2006, 04:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I guess his is the runt in comparision to the 9th pass dragons and if Carenath was smaller than Ruth doesn't that mean that Faranth was the same size? I mean queens are bigger than bronzes right? So Faranth and Ruth could have been the same size.
And Um purple monkey dishwashers?
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Old Jun 26 2006, 09:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Well the first dragons didn't have such a drastic size difference between colors, maybe just a few feet between a green and a gold. So there wouldn't be that much of a difference between Carenath and Faranth.
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Old Sep 21 2006, 12:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

A question about Ruth:

Does it not say that Ruth have all the colours? How could he have female colours if he is male?
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Old Sep 21 2006, 03:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

They don't know that he IS male, he is viewed as male since he Impressed a male. He might have Impressed a woman and been seen as female.

(I'm going to add a shameless plug for my story Dragonsong: An Alternate Tune - go read that if you want to see my take on that second situation!)

I think someone has mentioned either here or at the NKT that Ruth could be a hermaphrodite - gender neutral. Could someone who actually knows about that give us your input?
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Old Sep 22 2006, 02:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

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They don't know that he IS male, he is viewed as male since he Impressed a male. He might have Impressed a woman and been seen as female.
But green dragons (female dragons) also impress males.
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Old Sep 23 2006, 03:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

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Originally Posted by Brenda View Post

I think someone has mentioned either here or at the NKT that Ruth could be a hermaphrodite - gender neutral. Could someone who actually knows about that give us your input?
Hermaphrodite is actually both genders. Ruth strikes me as androgynous, which is genderless.
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Old Sep 23 2006, 04:28 PM   #14
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White Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

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They don't know that he IS male, he is viewed as male since he Impressed a male. He might have Impressed a woman and been seen as female.
That's one common view of things, but there's nothing in the books to back it up.

From the books we know that Ruth thinks of himself as male, and that he has zero sexual drive. Nothing is ever said about genetalia he might or might not have.

To me, if Ruth knows himself to be male, that's good enough for me.
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Old Sep 23 2006, 04:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I don't remember any references to differences between sexes other than color and size but I assume there must be some. From the moment he hatched, everyone always refered to Ruth as a "he" in no uncertain terms. I think he was, as Mirrim so unkindly put it, undersexed, not sexless.
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Old Sep 24 2006, 05:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Okay, androgynous, not hermaphrodite. Thanks! I knew what I meant, just not what it was!

Personally, I'll go with whichever thing makes Dragonsong: An Alternate Tune work! :shamelessplug:
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Old Sep 28 2006, 07:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I totally prefer Dragonsong: An Alternate Tune to the Impression of Ruth by Jaxom. Much more realistic.
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Old Sep 29 2006, 05:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Wow, thank you!!!
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Old Oct 22 2006, 08:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I belive that ruth is A male dragon simply because of the fact that if ruth were inded a female he would not feel the same extasy as jaxom during his ... with sharra
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Old Oct 24 2006, 06:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I pretty much believe that Ruth perceives himself as a "he" because Jaxom is.
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Old Nov 3 2006, 01:27 AM   #21
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Ruth is a boy dragon. he is not a rat, runt or chihuahua. He has Post Natal Incarceration Syndrom!

and what the heck is a purple monkey dishwasher, and has it had all its shots?
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Old Nov 3 2006, 04:58 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

A Purple Monkey Dishwasher (PMD for short ) dates from the original Kitchen Table where it was the default option in polls for eg "I don't know and frankly my dear I don't give a damn" or "none of the above"

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Ruth is a boy dragon. he is not a rat, runt or chihuahua. He has Post Natal Incarceration Syndrom!

and what the heck is a purple monkey dishwasher, and has it had all its shots?
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Old Nov 6 2006, 02:01 AM   #23
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okie dokie thanks Anneli. I now can feel comfertable taking the poll
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Old Nov 6 2006, 02:55 PM   #24
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You're welcome

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okie dokie thanks Anneli. I now can feel comfertable taking the poll
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Old Nov 7 2006, 01:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Dragons alway know who they are, they know there names from the moment they hatch, maybe even before they hatch, so dragons know who & what they are. Ruth never gave any referance to being male or female, but Ruth never correct Jaxom thinking of Ruth as male, so i think Ruth is defiantely male.

What would happen if you blind folded the canidates at a hatching, would they know what color they had impressed?
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Old Nov 7 2006, 03:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Once they have Their Own Dragon, they don't seem to care what color it is anyway!
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Old Nov 11 2006, 01:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

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Dragons alway know who they are, they know there names from the moment they hatch, maybe even before they hatch, so dragons know who & what they are.
Mmm. But we never hear a dragon until the moment that impression takes place, so really, we don't know for sure. Unless someone asks Anne, of course! There are a few theories floating around that suggest that the dragons learn their names as they impress, and that it depends in some way on the mind of their rider.

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What would happen if you blind folded the canidates at a hatching, would they know what color they had impressed?
No, not unless someone told them or they figured it out from the size of the hatchling.
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Old Feb 18 2007, 05:53 AM   #28
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I'm re-reading The White Dragon at the moment & falling in luv with Ruth all over again, lol...

Its so endearing how he doesnt feel the need to live up to other ppl/dragon's expectations of the norm, he is completely comfortable being exactly who he is & seems surprised when others dont just accept him for who he is...

I know he's gets picked on by a few of the less likable pernese characters & i know smaller that the other dragons & may be andogenous or sexless or whateva, but he's still such a hero to me!!! Even tho i know it doesnt happen, i keep expecting him to do something even more miraculous all of a sudden (like fly a queen *shrugs*) & prove to everybody whoeva put him down just how wrong they were!!!
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Old Feb 20 2007, 02:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
They don't know that he IS male, he is viewed as male since he Impressed a male. He might have Impressed a woman and been seen as female.

(I'm going to add a shameless plug for my story Dragonsong: An Alternate Tune - go read that if you want to see my take on that second situation!)

I think someone has mentioned either here or at the NKT that Ruth could be a hermaphrodite - gender neutral. Could someone who actually knows about that give us your input?
Ever since the original colonists figured out how to get a genetic sample from their unenhanced natives, the colonists have known how to tell the sex of a hatchling and certainly something as unusual as a white would get the attention of the dragon healers and others acquainted with the issues Ruth's hatching must have brought up.

The matter to his disinterrest to flying, I've always had the belief that Ruth is a mutation to a new type of native, different from the fire-lizards, dragons, or whers--so why would he find an interest in flying any of them if he wasn't one of them? He's no doubt waiting for Peggeth to hatch
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Old Apr 29 2007, 05:58 AM   #30
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

If he were that large a mutation, he wouldn't have lived at all. All significant mutations are fatal. His color, theoretically, was NOT a mutation. It is a valid, though extremely rare genetic combination. But since it's still not a "normal" result, and white dragons were never intended to be a part of the population, this combination triggers the self-destruct which causes an extra thick shell.

Its a bit tough for me to understand, since I'm not knowledgeable in genetics, but that's from the theory on this site. It's not canon, but it's still damn good and the closest thing that matches Pern. And according to this, it WOULD have a gender, which would most likely be male. I'm not sure why he would be totally disinterested in mating... at first I thought it might have to do with sterility, perhaps loss of libido went along with that, but then greens are sterile too and they certainly don't have any lack of it. Perhaps it's just a consequence of that rare genetic combination?
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Old Apr 29 2007, 07:54 AM   #31
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Ruth could be sterile and suffer from DPD (dragon penile dysfunction) rendering him unable to mate even if he wanted to.
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Old Apr 29 2007, 09:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Hmmm... it doesn't seem like there's any evidence to suggest he's unable to perform, he just doesn't WANT to.
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Old Apr 29 2007, 12:44 PM   #33
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

No, but there's no evidence to suggest that he's able, either. There's simply no evidence, just speculation based on his lack of a libido.
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Old Apr 29 2007, 09:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

maybe he doesn't need to since he is with Jaxom whenever he's in action, or maybe he doesn't want to because he doesn't want to be tied down to a weyr and a mate ridding Jaxom of the problem of choosing where to go. That would be a problem because even though everybody says he needs to stay lord holder, isn't it also true that his/her dragon is first priority?
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Old Apr 29 2007, 11:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

I'm wondering: how easy is it to tell a dragon's gender, apart from color?
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Old Apr 30 2007, 02:23 AM   #36
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

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I'm wondering: how easy is it to tell a dragon's gender, apart from color?
Well, since a dragon's "voice" sounds much like his rider, with a white dragon there's no REAL way to tell the true gender unless the dragon let them examine its genitals under the folds of skin under the tail. Other than that, there's no outward significant distinguishing attributes between genders.
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Old Apr 30 2007, 02:24 AM   #37
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maybe he doesn't need to since he is with Jaxom whenever he's in action, or maybe he doesn't want to because he doesn't want to be tied down to a weyr and a mate ridding Jaxom of the problem of choosing where to go. That would be a problem because even though everybody says he needs to stay lord holder, isn't it also true that his/her dragon is first priority?
A dragon can't fight instinct. If a dragon isn't rising when they're in their prime, there is something wrong.
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Old Apr 30 2007, 12:34 PM   #38
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

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at first I thought it might have to do with sterility, perhaps loss of libido went along with that, but then greens are sterile too and they certainly don't have any lack of it.

My understanding is that Greens are only sterile because they chew the firestone (as you may well remember a few Golds that wanted to chew, but their rider quickly dissuaded them of that).

I vote that Ruth is androgynous (being slightly more male than female), and has no need for such carnal relations.

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Old Apr 30 2007, 12:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: Is Ruth a run... er, rat-dragon?

Perhaps Ruth didn't have the need to mate, because like his smaller overall size, his general mating equipment was smaller too...ending in no drive to mate....just not enough to make it funtion correctly.
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Old Apr 30 2007, 04:14 PM   #40
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I'm sure than even men who are undersized have as much drive as anyone!
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