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Old Aug 28 2009, 12:19 AM   #41
Lady Maelin
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Default Re: The Goldrider of Pern (fanart comic)

Cursedsight...if art is what you love doing...just keep working...don't let anyones comments upset you, or cause you to stop or change what your doing. Keep working and you will learn something wonderfully new, exciting and different everyday you work, all adding to your own icredible body of work...Enjoy !!!
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Old Aug 28 2009, 04:14 AM   #42
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Hi

I had a read of this last night and actually I quite enjoyed it. I don't know enough about drawing to criticise the artwork and I "switched off" the bit of my brain that wanted to scream "canon".

The character could be a Gary Stu so, so easily, but he's not (which is good). My main gripe is that most of chapter 3 was missing for some reason (may have been my laptop but the results were the same on Firefox 3.5 and IE8)
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Old Aug 28 2009, 01:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Goldrider of Pern (fanart comic)

Touching on a few things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursedsight View Post
I'm not sure what you mean about not having to be a good artist to be clever or funny in terms of how it applies to my comic. Are you saying that I don't need to worry about anatomy as long as I'm clever and funny? There's a difference between my story driven comic and something like Penny Arcade which focuses just on the comedy factor.
That quote was not directed at me, but at proserpine, but it resonates with what I said earlier in my crit.

Penny Arcade actually doesn't just focus on comedy that simplistically--that's what makes it such a good webcomic. They have a handle on their demographic and their storytelling that where, even when the strip is just a once-off improbable thing with cusswords and blood spewing everywhere for comedic effect, the storytelling enhances the art. Penny Arcade art--if you go through the archives--didn't start out all that great. But the stories they chose to tell, even through the medium of humor, shored the art up for several years until Gabe developed into a really good artist. (This is why Penny Arcade is a two-man team...Tycho writing, Gabe drawing.)

How does this impact your comic? (I've seen you ask this several times.) Storytelling and drawing are two different talents. Your drawing is good. Very good. Since I'm not an artist, I can't really say where you could improve on that front, although others who do draw have pointed stuff out.

But I am a storyteller. And your storytelling is weak. How does this impact the comic?

Well, as you can see there's a lot of us here who didn't really finish the comic. You lost reader trust--the pretty art wasn't enough for some of us to continue all the way to the end, hoping the storyline would improve. You could see us and our responses as a test case...if you were to start another comic in the future, what could you improve upon so that those of us who were lost here are NOT lost on a future comic? What could be improved so that we would stick around as fans? What would you decide to do differently? Answer those questions, and you'll be learning more about the storytelling side of things.

This is why I linked a few comics earlier in this thread (Dicebox, Family Man, and Templar AZ) that are kickass storytelling-wise. I'm having a bit of difficulty translating what I do in writing to what its equivalent might be in drawing, so it's very hard for me to point out to you specifically giving page numbers and all what could be done differently to improve the storytelling, but If you do want to improve your storytelling, those webcomics would be ones I'd study, were I you.

Do you care about ANY of this? Maybe, maybe not. Up to you, and my feelings won't be hurt if you don't. You say several times that your intent is to throw something fun and not too difficult to do up on the web in your spare time, and you're not throwing your best talent at this comic. But, if you're seriously looking to grow specifically as a maker of comics (as opposed to an illustrator who focuses more on a single scene suspended in time) we're pointing you in a direction where you could work to improve your skills.

Regarding your intent about making the comic... be aware that a reader or consumer of art or fiction is rarely so noble or empathic to take into serious consideration your intent when drawing a picture or writing a story. A reader will get out of something what they intend to get out of it, not what you want them to get out of it. (People are selfish.) So, even though for you you're sticking up something done quickly for fun, your readers won't necessarily make allowances for it. (Honestly, I think it's unrealistic to expect them to do so. God knows I fully expect my readers of my fanfics to someday bitch-slap me on some shoddily-Crafted stuff I've slipped in. I'd deserve it too.)

Regardless of any of this...as Lady Maelin said--keep on drawing and doing what you want to do.

#

Regarding the writing vs. drawing side-convo going on in this thread...it's a bit derailed and people are tilting at things other people didn't actually say. But to add my two cents...

Drawing and music, for whatever reason, are very easy to peg if they're done poorly. In the USA and most of the Western world, Art and Music are discontinued as compulsory subjects roughly around the teenage years (and often several years before then). Therefore, most of the population is artistically and musically illiterate, from a production standpoint. They can appreciate, but largely can't produce. Art and music are considered skilled professions, not things that just anyone can do.

Writing, on the other hand, is taught from the youngest ages all the way through College and beyond. Everyone has some degree of literacy pounded into them unless they actively have some sort of mental disability that prevents them from learning it. Furthermore, pretty much everyone can talk and speak. Writing, unlike drawing or music, is a required skill in almost any profession.

Therefore, people believe it's easy to write. Therefore, the difficulty is devauled, compared to art or music.

And--to a certain extent--writing is easy. For a literate people, it's easy to stick some sentences down on the paper, saying how Tommy crossed the street to get some Milk and said Hello to the grocer while he was there. That's a small story, right there. Not really an interesting one, but you can't say that it didn't convey information about a character, a place, and an action, right?

This is why there's so much bad fanfic out there. The barrier to entrance is low--just need paper and pen, or a computer with a keyboard, most people are already literate--and nobody can claim that they don't get some sort of meaning out of a sentence.

So...yes, writing is easy.

And...no, writing well is not easy, and takes just as much devotion to learning...REALLY learning...as an artist needs, or a musician needs. It's just not as obvious, since first world citizens are trained in the basics since childhood.

There's a cliche (of the type that is cliched because it's true) in the fiction writing world that before you start writing something halfway decent, you write a million words of crap? Or something like that?

Also there's a saying that like any other profession, you need something like four or five or ten or something (forgot exactly which) YEARS of practice. (As in, 24/7 years.)

So.

(Here's a question - what would society be like if everyone...EVERYONE...was taught how to read music, identify notes, and draw pictures from life...and they actually had to use these skills every day for their job and in their lives and keep them sharp to some extent? I suspect music and artwork would be initially devalued too. It'd make for an interesting society, though...definitely a changed one. Perhaps I'll use the idea in an original sci-fi story.)

Two more quotes:

Quote:
It also takes much longer to communicate the same situation. I can write a paragraph describing K'mlar walking into a room and having a brief conversation with another character in less than 10 minutes of typing.
As a fanfic--AND original fic--writer, I typically spend a couple of hours on this. I kid you not. When you fold in world depiction, character depiction, word choice, scene choice, and more, you're way WAY beyond 10 minutes. I choose words like you choose color tones and line weights.

Quote:
That same scene in a comic could take up to 3 pages, taking about a week to draw and screentone each page.
Sounds about right, for my writing.

So, again...yes, it takes less time to spew crap on a page, and for whatever reason it's harder to detect written crap than drawn crap so drawn art tends to be of higher quality, and artists tend to self-select more than writers (ie, they know they suck and don't post...vs. writers who do suck and post anyway).

But, no, it takes just as much time for a decent writer to write a scene (or the equivalent artistic output, as it's not always a 1 to 1 ratio scene for scene) as it does for a good artist to draw it.
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Old Aug 29 2009, 08:32 AM   #44
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Default Re: The Goldrider of Pern (fanart comic)

Cursedsight, did you give up on this one or is my compputer being cranky? I can't get a connection. And I don't care very much about the nitpickys above, I wanted to know what happened.

And as for my own work, I can't do a comic to save my life, so I'm not going to criticise yours. I would say, yes, it is easier to write a story than draw a story, and much easier than trying to do both. And how are you going to improve unless you practice, so keep on going.
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Old Aug 29 2009, 11:35 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Maelin View Post
Cursedsight...if art is what you love doing...just keep working...don't let anyones comments upset you, or cause you to stop or change what your doing. Keep working and you will learn something wonderfully new, exciting and different everyday you work, all adding to your own icredible body of work...Enjoy !!!
I do second this, actually. Its the only way to get better, it is part of your person. I just think that if you put your art---be it drawings or prose---in a place where people can criticize it, don't be upset when they do.

Aside from the ad hominem about my age, I think we're actually on the same page as far as the technical skill writing takes. Most fanfiction IS bad. (Hence the "Not everything is Dragonschoice.") Typing is easy; writing is hard. The EXACT SAME goes for art. Go to Deviant Art or Elfwood....picking up a pencil and drawing is easy; making art is hard. You can't just give someone a bye on compositional flaws because they drew something rather than typed it up.
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Old Aug 31 2009, 05:05 PM   #46
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For those having problems with the website, the comic is viewable in DA, which is where I read it!

http://cursed-sight.deviantart.com/g...-of-Pern-Comic
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Old Sep 7 2009, 02:54 AM   #47
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Thanks, Platinum. I'm having trouble with DA, but at least it's accessible.

The art is interesting.
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Old Sep 7 2009, 02:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum View Post
For those having problems with the website, the comic is viewable in DA, which is where I read it!

http://cursed-sight.deviantart.com/g...-of-Pern-Comic
I like the image of the dragon on the sand Colianth and J'lantir. And thanks for the link to there.
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