View Single Post
Old Jan 15 2008, 04:17 AM   #47
Senior Member
Jayru's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A cozy house in the dales of Debyshire, in little old England
Gender: M
Fan of: The Pern Saga
Now Reading: No time to read, am writing!
Default Re: (Potential Adult Topic) Dragons Sexual Selection

One of the biggest problems with statistics, is that they can be used to proove anything. They are, in fact, usless - according to most experts.

Your figures on Pern's population are a little off - and that's ok. By the Ninth Pass there are 10 Weyrs/Weyr Holds and the dragon population is prob closer to 6,000.

Also, populations are not static - people do move about, so you may find that the weyrs have a larger gay population - becasue, as we know from the books, the weyrs do conduct searches within holds and craft halls And Holders/Crafters have been known to send people to the Weyrs as well. That - and simple need. (also, if we go by your ideas on the subject, a lot of gay men would be making there way to the Weyrs to have a better life).

Look at it this way, Ilkeston (the town I live in) has smaller ratio of gay men living in it, then say Brighton (the so called gay capital of the UK). Why? Becasue people move, populations are not static. Even on Pern people move about.

The other flaw in your figures is that you forgot that other people are living in the Weyrs: the support personal. You need to take them into account as well.

Now, I decided to do some home work on Kinsey, and his research before replying. 1 in 10 men may be exclusivly gay, but according to Kinsey 4 in 10 men are bisexual to one degree or another.

That changes things greatly.

So, Weyr population - on avarage about 2,500 including dragonriders. If half of them are men, then we have 1,250 men per Weyr. if half of them are bisexual or gay, then each Weyr has 625 sutible men of various ages for green, blue, brown dragons. Of course the total dragon population of each Weyr is about 500 dragons. Based on that, I don't see a problem. Do you?

The maths works. The facts work. Yeah Anne, she did it right after all.

Kinsey's report on human sexuality is the most often quoted, but I can think of others, and direct people to more modern research on the subject if need be. His report is also considered to be controversal, wrong, outdated, and generally out of touch with the world we live in today, by most people in the field.

One of my bestest friends in the world is an expert on this issue (although even she would say not the leading one, just one of the experts). She is currently working with the UK Government on new guide lines for sex education in schools - and even goes into schools to talk to children about the subject herself. When it comes to human psycology I don't argue with her, frankly her list of qualifications is frightening. She is too good at figuring out what makes people tick...

The idea that sexuality is fluid, came from her - and her research. It's not a "homo" idea to make the world more appealing (she's actually stright herself, if it matters, and personally my sexuality isn't fluid - I am, and always have been, gay). It's based on research, and psycological profiles. She's been working on this stuff since I've known her, which must be about 12 years now. In fact I met her becasue I was one of the people she interviewed - and one of the freaky rair people who's sexuality is 100% one thing. I guess I'm not a fluid person in that area. My points were based on definable science.

Your reasoning and arguments ElectricDragon are flawed, and the reason they are flawed is as follows; You are projecting your own view of the world on to how you see things on Pern working. You are projecting your attitude and feelings into the matter. You are not being objective.

You have not actually given us a quote or reference within the books that shows a situation where Holders/Crafters are down right hostile or discriminatory towards homosexuals, or discriminate against people becasue they are ill or old.

And you wont find any such passages either, becasue there aren't any.

Individual characters within the series have been shown to have a variety of takes on the subject - but down right hositility? The same sort of closed minded bigotry that goes on here on planet Earth? Not been seen on Pern. Anne didn't want that on her world, and so it isn't there.

Lady M beat me to the post on picking up an a ref from Dragonsdawn about the original colonists. Which basically came down to, eveyone was expected to contribute to the next generation - regardless of there sexual orientation. So clearly, and obviously not all the colonists were straight and hetrosexual. In fact Telgar makes reference to that. Obvioulsy being gay wasn't an issue to signing up for being a Pern colonist. In fact I doubt that sexuality would have been an issue at all in being able to join the colony. Take a look at the short story "The Second Weyr;" no one blinks an eyelid at the fact there is an openly gay blue-rider.

Dragonsdawn - and Anne by interview, made one thing very clear: There is no religion on Pern - and they have none of the problems or issues caused by having religion either. So a lot of issues that people have/had with homosexuality were never going to be (and never have been an issue) on Pern. Again, that is born out by clear evidence within the books.

I am happy to continue disccusing this matter with you ED - but clearly it would help if you could find an instance in the books that backs up what you are saying. Otherwise, this is just your personal opinion on the subject.

Last edited by Jayru; Jan 15 2008 at 05:42 AM. Reason: Added some info... that and I like to mess with peoples minds...
Jayru is offline   Reply With Quote