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Old Jan 14 2008, 11:18 AM   #36
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A cozy house in the dales of Debyshire, in little old England
Gender: M
Fan of: The Pern Saga
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Default Re: (Potential Adult Topic) Dragons Sexual Selection

I have to agree with Kath - you can find that sort of behaviour going on if you look for it.

ElectricDragon - take a look at the history of sex and sexuality on this planet. Until religion started sinking it's teeth into it, most people didn't have an issue with it.

Remove the religious constraints and issues from sex and sexuality and you get some surprising results.

FYI - it is a conservitive estimate at best that 10% of the population are gay/lesbian. Why? Becasue of the people asked by Kinsey only 10% were willing to state they were gay/lesbian (this of course was at a time when being such was taboo). That survey and report has been called into question over the last few decades by lots of leading psycologists as being inaccurate, and geared to a particular political view point. In the UK, the government believes that 5-7% of the population are gay/lesbian. Most psycologists put the figure at closer to 20% - becasue again, not everyone asked is honest about what they are.

In truth human sexuality is far more fluid, and the labels we use to define it are what screws it up. Very few human being are 100% straight/gay/lesbian - they are bisexual to a degree. I know more bisexual people then I do straight/gay/otherwise. Most of them don't define there sexuality with a lable, they just have a wider choice of people they can fall for/be with/have sex with.

Given that Pern is set in our future - and baring any sort of extreme religion taking over the world and forcing it's view on how we should all live on us, I can forsee (without hessitiation) a time when human sexuality is not so rigidly defined by terms of "gay," "stright," "bi," etc etc, and people just fall for people - regardless of what sex they are.

If the bulk of the Pern coloney are made up of people like that, then I have no problem with forseeing that they would be able to find enough sutable men as partners for Green and Blue dragons.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Mirrim's father a green rider? If so then it would seem that some green riders do have relationships with members of the oposite sex...

Whilst I do agree that the Weyrs seem to have a more open mind on the issue of sexuality then the Holds - the Holds would be hard pressed to justify removing so many people from the population as you suggest - at the end of the day they would be cutting there own noses off to spite there faces. I would imagin that most Lord Holders are educated on these facts, and probubly see to it that any males that show "homosexual tendancies" are sent to the weyrs. In fact there is overwealming evidence in the books to support that - off the top of my head, I can think of a scene from MasterHarper of Pern that deals with just that.

And no offense Electric Dragon, but gay and lesbian people have spent nearly 2000 years on this planet dealing with persicution, narrow mindedness, and prudish people - and yet, they have survived, and prospered - and (gasp) in a few countries are beginning to get equal rights and treatment. Given that gay/lesbians were able to hide from such treatment on Earth - do you not think that they would be able to survive such treatment on Pern? And knowing that they would be accepted in the Weyrs, make there way there?
Are you suggesting that Pern - which is set in our future, is less advanced socially? I'm sorry but I find no evidence within the books to support that idea. Individual characters may have there own issues with it - but human life seems to valued by most on Pern.

I don't think that Pern is that dark and dangerious a place for us homos.

Yes, Anne has some very old fashioned ideas about gay men - I have no issue with that. She's 80+ years old. She's allowed. At least she included gay men/characters in her stories - which less face it, for it's "ground breaking ideas" Star Trek never did (and no I don't count the girl on girl kiss in DS9 - becasue it never happend again with that character...). I've often wondered what happend to all the lesbians - I guess none joined the coloney, or have ever been born on Pern. More as likely they have never been written about.

Looking at the facts - what is the total number of dragonriders in Pern's population? Now how big is the total population, and is 10% (keeping this conservitive for arguments sake) of that number greater or less then the total number of dragonriders? Work that out, and then you will have an answer as to whether the weyrs would be hard pressed to find enough men to ride green/blue dragons. Remember, if we stick to the conservitive esitmate, for every one million people you have on Pern, one hundred thousand would be gay.

Pern isn't perfect, but it is what it is - fiction. Try and enjoy it as such.
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