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-   -   Bunny hop...and also, power without generators? (http://forums.srellim.org/showthread.php?t=4979)

D. M. Domini Jan 26 2008 12:40 AM

Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
I was just wondering why bunny-hopping isn't more common among high-T-but-not-Prime telekinetics. Grab a space-worthy capsule (and they all seem to be space-worthy, just in case), hop to the edge of your limit, then hop again, and again, until you're at Deneb or whatever far-away world you want to get to.

I guess on second thought, perhaps it's because generator-assisted Talent is magnitudes more powerful than non-generator-assisted, which is why Peter Reidinger I's discovery was such a big discovery. After the first bunny-hop, the talent would be out of range of a good generator.*

Hm. So, how powerful are our Talented friends when not in the presence of a generator to draw on?

We know a Prime like Damia can port a heavy ore-drone (at least as big as a mining dump-truck, which are really big, I'd think, possibly bigger) over light years with only the help of a lower-level second in command (before Afra all she had was a T-6, which is quite low for that sort of work...Gren is a T-4, Afra is a T-4 to T-2 over the course of the books...David's wife is a T-2, Mauli and Mick are T-3's I think? On the other hand, isn't Goswina a T-6 too? And we know she's nowhere near second-in-command strength.) Granted, she has her catalyst talent, which amps up those around her.

What could Damia (or the Rowan) do without generator assist?

When Jeff protected Deneb from Hiver bombs, was he using a generator? Sure they didn't have proper Tower generators, but I'm sure the world had powerplants, which Reidinger I drew upon in the Pegasus books. Any electricity seems to do.

Anyone have any clues what could be done without generator assist by each level?

(*Here's a new thought...could a talent tap the energy generated by a sun? We know there's electricity in lightening...could a Talent tap lightening for a boost? Or would the unpredictable surge burn them out if they tried? How much variance *is* there in a lightening bolt?)

granath Jan 28 2008 01:31 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
Getting generator assist isn't a problem, since they can use some odd kind of spaceship engines for that.

The Rowan could certainly lob off quite a lot of hiver missiles with only the other kinetics on Callisto for an assist (who didn't make up the power of another Prime, even together).

I bet the Rowan could at the very least port a small personnel carrier from Callisto to Earth without gestalt.

Nina Jan 28 2008 04:55 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Portalvast Magus (Post 99175)
I was just wondering why bunny-hopping isn't more common among high-T-but-not-Prime telekinetics. Grab a space-worthy capsule (and they all seem to be space-worthy, just in case), hop to the edge of your limit, then hop again, and again, until you're at Deneb or whatever far-away world you want to get to.

Maybe a talent needs to be fully developed into prime to be able to get the coordinates of the destination straight as well as other parameters such as distracting raidiation, other's telepathy thoughts and ???.

I do not think that bunny-hopping is what is done by any talent able to move kinetically. I think that going somewhere would be done long range in one smooth glide or short range in one sudden jump at the speed of thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portalvast Magus (Post 99175)
Hm. So, how powerful are our Talented friends when not in the presence of a generator to draw on?

What could Damia (or the Rowan) do without generator assist?

I think that Damia, Rowan or any other talent can do just the same without generators as with, only they would have to work harder, and they would get very tired and burn out earlier and would need a lot more breaks during the day and thus shift less mass in total.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portalvast Magus (Post 99175)
Any electricity seems to do.

In my experience even electromagnetic fields will do. It seems that electricity aligns, enhances and concentrates the talent.

What about the small electrical current in the human body (or in frog legs :) ) this must be important too! Maybe the reason why talent works.

ghost8772 Mar 20 2008 01:11 AM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
I don't think a bunny hop would work all that well. from the descriptions of how talent worked the talents pictured what they were doing. An all or nothing move. if a talent tried to teleport him/herself they'd likely get lost on the way, or never move, and give themselves a colossal headache, or kill themselves with the effort. The other option of moving themselves to the edge of their limits means they would have to see where they were going, a difficult taks to accomplish with deep space being fairly featureless.

I do recall Afra teleporting The Rowan from Callisto to Mars, but I think there was Gestalt involved there.

There was a description, I think in The Tower and the Hive, that described how T-2's and even T-3's could merge to reach the Prime level. A pair of T-2's, or three T-3's with a strong bond.... marriage, or twins/triplets.

Brenda Mar 20 2008 06:40 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
Rereading this, it occurs to me that if the ship contained the generators, the talent could port it anywhere without going out of range! Which would only leave the issue of how far their mental range would reach...

P'ter Mar 21 2008 06:24 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
A saying involving the words "lifting" "yourself" & "bootlaces" comes to mind.

ghost8772 Mar 31 2008 01:16 AM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
well, normal physics don't apply to the Talents, at least when they are exercising their talents. after all the energy required to transfer a mass in the kilotons ten parsecs or more instantaneously would be staggering. using a generator within the ship you want to move not a big bad problem, especially to the author.

P'ter Mar 31 2008 06:10 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
I seem to remember a study by NASA which stated that rotating a spaceship into other dimensions WAS possible but it would take every erg of energy in the known universe to do it once.

But, this might be a time when Azimov's Principle applies (once again) :notme:

ghost8772 Apr 4 2008 01:56 AM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
not sure I'd like to see that math. can only imagine the headaches involved. I'm more familiar with Heinlein's ideas of rotating things away from everything else. don't recall Asimov describing those. Okay, I'll bite. what is the Asimov Principle? or is it as simple as "my world my rules?"

P'ter Apr 4 2008 07:23 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
Azimov's Principle states that if an "Expert" over the age of twenty-five states that something is impossible: they're probably wrong; if an 'Expert' under the age of twenty-five states that something is possible: they're probably right.

Brenda Apr 4 2008 07:54 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
If you're talking about Isaac, that should be Asimov.

P'ter Apr 5 2008 01:36 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
:blush: :O :blush: :O :blush: :O

My spell checker doesn't know either!

ghost8772 Apr 6 2008 03:52 AM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
Ah. sounds about right. I wonder if anyone back checked that theory against Newton, Kepler, Galileo etc.....

P'ter Apr 6 2008 05:42 AM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
NB: he hedged his bets. He used the word 'probably'.

Cherlyn Apr 6 2008 12:04 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
I think this may be what is working - a talent may be able to port themselves but porting requires two anchor points: Point A and point B with the 'straight line' carrier wave connecting the two. The gesalts provide the anchors to send along the line and to receive. A Prime could easily teleport, but without exactly knowing where to port (short ports to known places are easy to pull off since you follow your own 'line') you are 'broadcast over a wide area. That wouldn't be good.

mawra Apr 27 2008 11:34 PM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
I think that primes can do some teleports with generators. They can sent farther with generators than with out. If they HAD to port something farther away without a generator they probable could, but it would take them a while to recover. It is defently easier with a generator than without.

Rianne Dec 22 2010 12:21 AM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
in LP or DC
(not sure witch) Jeff yells at Thian when he makes an unpowered call after finding the hiver larve.

Maximillian Jan 10 2012 10:09 AM

Re: Bunny hop...and also, power without generators?
 
I realise this post is ancient, but I haven't been here in a while so I thought I'd chime in :P

A Prime at their peak efficiency and full health, could most definitely handle large ports and tosses with ease even without gestalt. But to do so over a long period of time would result in mental burn out. But you must also remember, they only use the generators on the PUSH, and then follow it out until the "hand-off". The power levels used on each push would be relative to the distance and mass being ported and also to the individuals own personal "sync" with the generators being used. (Some talents are more attuned to gestalt techniques than others)

"Bunny-hopping" would be problematic at best for long range space travel of any sort. There are far too many variables for an individual to make a blind hop of that sort without getting "lost" in space (DANGER WILL ROBBI...oops wrong universe). Long distance ports require at least a visual cue or projected mental image/data of the destination before the toss, so yes bunny-hopping around space would be a big no no :P

Planet-side however, it is quite feasible for a lower T-rating to do so using known landmarks and beacons. Which I'm sure would happen quite frequently on most talent laden planets, depending of course on the "talent etiquette" of any given planet or culture.


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