A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum

A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum (http://forums.srellim.org/index.php)
-   All the Rest (http://forums.srellim.org/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony (http://forums.srellim.org/showthread.php?t=750)

sassie Feb 9 2005 06:42 PM

Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
I know that the 'Body Heir' is tattooed within days of birth. This is understandable, as this would prevent any sort of switching of the baby, but I feel that there is much more to it than that, because of the nature of such indelible and distinctive marking.
I accept that the genetic investment and importance to the parent who’s Body Heir the child is, and that the symbols of that house would take precedence over the other parents’ house.
Is this only to establish the antecedents and other family connections of the Heir? Does it also show the status, importance, standing and power of their house?
How is the design of the Tattoo decided? How are the symbolic emblems of each House used, in combination, to create the unique design for each unique individual, and who makes these decisions?
Is there a College of Heraldry who keeps a track of such things? If any symbols are to be omitted, who makes the decision of which emblems and symbols are obsolete, there must be some reduction or combining of devices, otherwise over time, the tattoo and necklace would be large, ugly and in the necklace's case very heavy!
Are the Tattoos coloured or just a representative outline, if the colours and textures are put in place by the Necklace its-self at the ceremony of Necklacing. I wondered, as it must be very difficult to tattoo a fine line on a baby who is going to grow and the alignment must be perfect or the Necklace won't sit, as it should at the Necklace ceremony
Do you think that, as the culture is very much based on commercial interests, are these represented too? I don't like to think that the Necklaces are composed of the logos of various large corporations! (Just think Coke and Nike!) How would these be represented, I have always envisaged the neck tattoo and necklace its-self to be very dainty and graceful.
Would there any significance in what jewels and metals are used in the making of the Necklace?
What happens, if after the tattooing but before the formal Necklacing ceremony, something drastic happens, would this have an effect of the design and would it be changed?
This could be an event that elevates the status of House, in which case, is the design certain to be changed to reflect this? Likewise if the House experienced an event which lowers their standing, would there be an expectation of society for the Necklace to be changed and how much ‘loss of face’ would there be if this were to happen?
As the necklace has to fit over the Tattoo, how would such changes be done?
Has anyone done any designs for Necklaces? I would love to see any visualisations or interpretations of them. I would love to have go at these myself but I can no longer paint or draw, so it’s my loss and I'm sending out a challenge to all you artists out there!
Any jewellery designers open to this idea? I, for one, would commission a family Necklace, and I like the idea of this being passed down through my family in years to come.
I wait with baited breath to see any artwork and designs!

Dragonsqueen Feb 12 2005 06:09 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
Woah, what a long list of questions etc! I don't think the necklace tattoos were logo's or anything like that, I always imagine them as a complex swirl like kind of design, hard to describe, but like a diamond necklace I once saw. You got me thinking though, like wouldn't the tattoo stretch after birth? If the necklace was also made at birth as a replica of the tattoo, how would they know what size the child would grow to, so they could make the necklace to cover the tattoo. Also did the guys have necklaces too? I wouldn't think so, so what did they have? Now I'm asking a hundred questions! Time for the next person to answer it all :razz:

sassie Feb 12 2005 08:36 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
I am now re-reading 'Nimisha's Ship' again and yes, the necklace is a tattoo
done early in life. Then a small necklace is given to the Body Heir on reaching their Minor Majority, they don't reach their Adult Majority for another four years but are expected to behave themselves as an adult would.
"The necklace displays the families indentification Patterns: the same ones that been indeliblytattooed on Nimisha's neck shortly after her birth"
When it said Families it includes the other parents family sybolls too but not a prominant as the family which the Body Heirs is.
I think more details will come out when Nimisha's Body Heir finds her in time for her ceremoy later in the book.
The 'House's are known by the comercial enterprises that they control but its not come up in the book yet. if your interested I'll keep you up dated as the answers emerge!
Now you see why there were so many questions. :D ....I started you off as well :bouncy: :bouncy:

sassie Feb 16 2005 07:39 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
:crazy: I've just finished 'Nimisha's Ship' again and has only brought up more questions about the necklacing thing is even more on my mind! I've laid down the challange but think I'm going to have a go at a design myself, if any one would like to try designing a necklace for their own 'body Heir' I'd love to see it. I'll try and post my results! :good:

Dragonsqueen Feb 19 2005 06:19 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
I've just read the Coelura again, it also had body heirs and tattoos, and it explains their purpose in more detail, the copy I just read was illustrated, and showed the tattoo as a band around the neck, with intertwining loops, that would make sense since having it around the neck would mean it expands evenly~ You should find that book and read it :)

sassie Feb 19 2005 07:33 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
I've read 'The Coelura.' But the copy I have is the one where 'Nerilka's Story' is the first story, I've just got it out to read again! It's not the Illustrated edition so I’m still wondering about the designs!
Thanks for the information, :good:
I'd forgotten that tattoos are mentioned and as a note of interest the 'spins' of the Coelura are mentioned in 'Nimisha's Ship'. Where she wishes that she had one as they are so rare and that there are only two spins allowed a year, one for sale and one for their nests. :bouncy:

Dragonsqueen Feb 28 2005 08:21 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
Hey, I never noticed that point in Nimisha's ship, and I just read it reciently! I read the Coelura with Nerilka's story the first time, but havn't seen that copy again :razz:

sassie Mar 1 2005 06:59 AM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
That's the copy I've got too!
I have noticed that 'Body Heirs' is listed as if there's going to be more books in this vein....OOHH I hope so!!! :D

Cheryl Mar 31 2005 09:46 AM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
Anne certainly left the door open for a follow up to Nimisha's Ship, and she's mentioned writing more about her - perhaps in collaboration with Todd (who helped with a lot of the ship design details). But, as with anything, it's dependant on her having a specific plot idea. And her publisher always pushes for Pern since that's what sells best.

Brenda Mar 31 2005 04:46 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
Regarding the tattoo and necklace - the book says the child is tattooed soon after birth. Nothing is said about a matching necklace being made. Surely a necklace could be made right before the ceremony to match.

bisbe Apr 2 2005 02:26 AM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda
Regarding the tattoo and necklace - the book says the child is tattooed soon after birth. Nothing is said about a matching necklace being made. Surely a necklace could be made right before the ceremony to match.

That's the impression I have--that the necklace is made shortly before the ceremony.

Sandi May 19 2005 07:07 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
That's really the only way that makes sense. I personally have a birthmark on my back that demonstrates how things change as a person grows.

Larra Dragonrider Jul 7 2005 02:38 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
I can't think that they'd make the necklace at the same time as the tatoo. i thnk they mention some of that about cuvia. as for the colleura, i'll se if mine is illustrated, since i got it yesterday, but was in a hurry to finish the freedom series. if it is, i might get some digital pics up for everyone to see. (don't have a scanner)

Seraphina Sep 28 2011 06:47 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
I know that this post is years old but I just had to add my two cents.

My understanding from Coelura was that the tattoos are in color, and they have more color and are more complicated if you have a higher rank in society. That doesn't always hold true though in the three cities.

Babies are given the tattoos shortly after their birth but with how advanced their medicine is they can probably change anything that get stretched out of place during their lives. The necklaces are also made just before the children's minor majority and are made of whatever materials that parent/parents can afford.

Each child is given their own symbol at birth and that symbol is the central, largest symbol. It has minor variations from whichever parent they are body heirs to probably and most likely every generation has the oldest 2 symbols removed to fit in the parents symbols being added (This is my hypothesis after having read both books repeatedly just to figure out it would work).

If anybody ever bothered to make their own Necklace tattoo or does after reading this please post it so that I can see what they look like.

Oh, to answer one of the original questions. There has to be a book on the symbols used in the tattoos because in both books people recognize status and heritage by looking at the tattoos.

GinnyStar Sep 29 2011 08:51 AM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
There is another Ninishi's Ship which goes into more details, another Anne McCaffrey stand alone, book, in which, its in the same world as the Coelura, which is something, that Ninishi's mother wanted, but the 'waiting list' was long, one of the stranded members was younger sister to the body heirs.

I know it one of those book that I listen to a lot, and read when I could, I just have the paperback and it hard to read that print for long time :eek::roll: need to get the 'kinks' out so I can get hold of an audio copy of it.

Brenda Sep 29 2011 12:09 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
What Ginny said. It's not just three cities on one planet. The traditions of body-heirs, tattoos and necklaces are spread throughout a number of systems, from what we can tell in Nimisha's Ship.

GinnyStar Sep 30 2011 11:37 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda (Post 179528)
What Ginny said. It's not just three cities on one planet. The traditions of body-heirs, tattoos and necklaces are spread throughout a number of systems, from what we can tell in Nimisha's Ship.

Yes, they are also in many of the FSP world, even service once, sorry my mind isn't quite staying on topic, a special dye, shorly after birth, and more later.

Seraphina Oct 6 2011 05:43 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
I know that there are two books. That's why in my post I comment on having read both books (I just didn't name Nimisha's Ship) my ideas are based on having read the two books many times and paying special attention to the tattoos whenever they are mentioned. GinnyStar, do you know which of the FSP books mention the tattooing? I don't regularly read them but I'd make a point just to gather more information on the tattoos. I'm sorry if my post wasn't clear enough.

GinnyStar Oct 7 2011 10:46 PM

Re: Necklace Tattoo & Necklacing Ceremony
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphina (Post 179657)
I know that there are two books. That's why in my post I comment on having read both books (I just didn't name Nimisha's Ship) my ideas are based on having read the two books many times and paying special attention to the tattoos whenever they are mentioned. GinnyStar, do you know which of the FSP books mention the tattooing? I don't regularly read them but I'd make a point just to gather more information on the tattoos. I'm sorry if my post wasn't clear enough.

Its getting to dark to read small print, and I don't know were the other book is, we moved in small loads, without any packing list or id on them, so I'm work on clearning the backlog of stuff, I don't have the books to hand, I shall and get back too you, :blush:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

A Meeting of Minds forum owned by Cheryl B. Miller.
All references to worlds and characters based on Anne McCaffrey’s fiction are copyright © Anne McCaffrey 1967-2008, all rights reserved, and used by permission of the author.