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-   -   Who's Painting is This? (http://forums.srellim.org/showthread.php?t=7485)

Tamara Henson Mar 8 2010 07:41 PM

Who's Painting is This?
 
My sister sent me this painting in an e-mail for my Birthday. She said that she found it on the internet but cannot remember where. The image is titled ATWOP-Bronzie.

http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/...op-Bronzie.jpg

It is obviously a re-painted version of the American cover to All the Weyrs of Pern. Its style reminds me of the art done by Micah Johnson so is this your art Spaceman Spiff?

Whoever did it, I think it is beautiful and wanted to share :good:

Ryuu Mar 8 2010 09:43 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
That does indeed looks like Bronzie's ("Spaceman Spiff" here) redux of Whelan's AtWoP. I recently been to his Deviant Artists page & didn't see it there, but it might be in his photobucket account??

Hans Mar 9 2010 10:37 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
The title of this original work of art by the American artist Michael Whelan is Weyrworld. Maybe I am understanding you wrong, but this is not by Micah Johnson (aka Bronzerider aka Spaceman Spiff), this is the original. Mind you, you have only a part of the original here.

You can see Whelan's Pern Art here: http://www.pern.nl/art_gallery/official/whelan.html

Your sister can have found it in a myriad places as it is a pretty famous piece, one of the few of which posters are still sold, I think (you can also see the poster in my Pern Art Gallery).

Anareth Mar 9 2010 11:03 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Hans--that's not the original. Look at your own page, look at the head on Whelan's Ruth, and look at this one.

Hans Mar 9 2010 12:19 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Ah... :) Oops, yes this one is tweaked a little :)

Thanks, Anareth!

Pure sacrilege :grin:

Golden Talisath Mar 9 2010 04:41 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Anareth's right. And, if I'm not mistaken, the moons are not right - on the original, they're on the left of Ruth, but on this, they're on the right.

Brenda Mar 9 2010 05:31 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
"Find six differences..."

P'ter Mar 9 2010 05:55 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Ruth's left wing is also in a different relationship to the 'brain tree' behind it (perhaps it's meant to be in Essex UK) :D

Spaceman Spiff Mar 9 2010 07:02 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Yes, this is my work :) I painted it for the KT art competition several years ago, that must have been where it was picked up from, or the photobucket account for it, as that is the only place it's ever been posted by me.

Although thanks for the heads up Ryuu, I had completely forgotten that I'd never uploaded it to deviantart! I'll do that soon, with a watermark to show that it's my work.

To completely clarify, this is 100 percent painted from scratch in photoshop, it is not merely a manipulation on Whelan's work. I referenced Weyrworld to the extreme, but I did paint all of it myself (with the help of a couple filters ;) ) My goal was to replicate Whelan's work as closely as possible, but make Ruth more accurately Pernese, to my imagination anyway.

I guess I succeeded - I'm astonished that Hans mistook it for Whelan's original piece! :faint2:

Ryuu Mar 9 2010 07:04 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda (Post 161323)
"Find six differences..."

spoiler list:Aside from the shape of Ruth's head and end of his tail changed to fit Anne's descriptions of the Enhanced Pernese natives, all the other dragons & their perches are gone, horizon is different, moons are moved over Ruth's perch, tree is smaller beneath the left wing, muscles on the wings members are more pronounced, & tail is 18% shorter.

I think that counts as 7:notme:

Ryuu Mar 9 2010 07:07 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff (Post 161331)
Yes, this is my work :) I painted it for the KT art competition several years ago, that must have been where it was picked up from, or the photobucket account for it, as that is the only place it's ever been posted by me.

Although thanks for the heads up Ryuu, I had completely forgotten that I'd never uploaded it to deviantart! I'll do that soon, with a watermark to show that it's my work.

To completely clarify, this is 100 percent painted from scratch in photoshop, it is not merely a manipulation on Whelan's work. I referenced Weyrworld to the extreme, but I did paint all of it myself (with the help of a couple filters ;) ) My goal was to replicate Whelan's work as closely as possible, but make Ruth more accurately Pernese, to my imagination anyway.

I guess I succeeded - I'm astonished that Hans mistook it for Whelan's original piece! :faint2:

Holy shit! You did REALLY damned good, then! It fooled me, too! :lol:

Spaceman Spiff Mar 9 2010 07:07 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Talisath (Post 161321)
Anareth's right. And, if I'm not mistaken, the moons are not right - on the original, they're on the left of Ruth, but on this, they're on the right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by P'ter (Post 161328)
Ruth's left wing is also in a different relationship to the 'brain tree' behind it (perhaps it's meant to be in Essex UK) :D

Yes. I love the double moons, but I needed the image centered on Ruth. I moved them over so I could keep them in the picture. And I made the wings slightly larger, which is why they look different in relation to the tree behind it.

Spaceman Spiff Mar 9 2010 07:15 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuu (Post 161333)
Holy shit! You did REALLY damned good, then! It fooled me, too! :lol:

:lol: I thought I made it clear on the KT when I entered it! Either way, thank you :blush:

Ryuu Mar 9 2010 07:19 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff (Post 161335)
:lol: I thought I made it clear on the KT when I entered it! Either way, thank you :blush:

I remember seeing the picture back then, that's why I recognized it was your work, but I forgot that you said you did from scratch:O & you're welcome--awesome job there!!

jube Mar 9 2010 10:21 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
One way of getting Spiffy and Ryuu back, haven't seen much of either of you lately so welcome back. Like the pictorial viewpoint, Spiff, WELL DONE!

Lady Maelin Mar 10 2010 12:21 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
I would have thought someone would have commented on the eye color [green...Whelan's are blue] or the beautiful face of Ruth,...Spiffy's has much more expression than the one Whelan did, and the Pern Dragon head knobs is diffenantly Spiffy's work...no head knobs on Whelans Dragon...also the tail a Pern dragon tail split...no split on Whelan's.
This is one of Spiffy's best Pern works...although all of his work is incredibly fantastic in my opinion.

Becky Mar 10 2010 01:02 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Spiffy's Ruth also has a more equine head than Whelan's. And the wing muscles on Spiffy's Ruth seem to me better suited for keeping the dragon aloft. Love Whelan's art...don't get me wrong....but Spiffy's does indeed seem to better picture Anne's dragon description. Great job Spiff!

Hans Mar 10 2010 03:47 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff (Post 161331)
I guess I succeeded - I'm astonished that Hans mistook it for Whelan's original piece! :faint2:

Although you wrought well that was simply a case of not paying enough attention, Spiff :)

Samsara Mar 10 2010 06:11 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
I really like what you have done with this painting Spiff. Like Lady M said, this Ruth has far more expression in his face then Whelan's does. And, like Lady M, I noticed the difference in eye colour straight away. The only thing I might have done differently, is to keep the eyes blue instead of green. I think it would have looked better (more noticable, as the green eyes kind of blend in) due to the green brain tree thingy behind Ruth's head. I wonder if the eyes had stayed blue, if the expression you achieved on Ruth's face would have been lost? Maybe the expression is heightened because his eyes are green? Also just noticed he actually has an eyeball, which Whelan's did not. Maybe that is the difference... Looking at Whelan's one, Ruth's eyes look a little glassy.

Geez... I'm rambling... sorry...

All things said & done, I likes it! :good:

Spaceman Spiff Mar 10 2010 10:52 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jube (Post 161339)
One way of getting Spiffy and Ryuu back, haven't seen much of either of you lately so welcome back. Like the pictorial viewpoint, Spiff, WELL DONE!

I know, I'm terrible for being absent for so long :sorry: Thank Cheryl for giving me a poke :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Maelin (Post 161341)
This is one of Spiffy's best Pern works...although all of his work is incredibly fantastic in my opinion.

Thanks :blush: I reeeeaaaally wish I could do more paintings like this, it just takes so incredibly long to do :faint2: And for a very detailed piece, it's very hard (for me, at least) to do an original piece without extensive reference - and there isn't exactly a lot of reference for dragons ;) Despite this one being drawn from scratch, it's still just looking back and forth at the original painting and copying, with some tweaking here and there. It doesn't give as much satisfaction as something original.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsara (Post 161352)
I really like what you have done with this painting Spiff. Like Lady M said, this Ruth has far more expression in his face then Whelan's does. And, like Lady M, I noticed the difference in eye colour straight away. The only thing I might have done differently, is to keep the eyes blue instead of green. I think it would have looked better (more noticable, as the green eyes kind of blend in) due to the green brain tree thingy behind Ruth's head. I wonder if the eyes had stayed blue, if the expression you achieved on Ruth's face would have been lost? Maybe the expression is heightened because his eyes are green? Also just noticed he actually has an eyeball, which Whelan's did not. Maybe that is the difference... Looking at Whelan's one, Ruth's eyes look a little glassy.

Geez... I'm rambling... sorry...

All things said & done, I likes it! :good:

I chose to change his eyes to green because Ruth is already pretty blue-hued from all the reflection of sky and clouds, and I thought having green eyes would keep Ruth from being too blue-dominated.

You can't tell in the image here, but in the full-sized painting his eyes were faceted. The resizing kind of blurs it all together :( I'm not sure what you mean by Whelan's Ruth not having an eyeball? :confused:

Golden Talisath Mar 10 2010 02:58 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Well, all of this said, I like the painting too, although I must admit that I myself didn’t see the difference when I first saw the picture, and thought it’s Michael’s, and even when I compared them the only thing I saw different where the said moons.
Oh, well.
And since we’re comparing the pictures, and finding what’s different, like Brenda said, should we move this to the Games and Miscellany part of the forum?:D;)

Ryuu Mar 10 2010 06:20 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jube (Post 161339)
One way of getting Spiffy and Ryuu back, haven't seen much of either of you lately so welcome back. Like the pictorial viewpoint, Spiff, WELL DONE!

I've always been ketch reading, just not always responding;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Maelin (Post 161341)
I would have thought someone would have commented on the eye color [green...Whelan's are blue] or the beautiful face of Ruth,...Spiffy's has much more expression than the one Whelan did, and the Pern Dragon head knobs is diffenantly Spiffy's work...no head knobs on Whelans Dragon...also the tail a Pern dragon tail split...no split on Whelan's.
This is one of Spiffy's best Pern works...although all of his work is incredibly fantastic in my opinion.

Whelan certainly knows dragons:evil: All his paintings for Anne pulls the reader into the stories like no other cover artist has done for Anne. That cover for DF certainly expresses the awesome power, grace, and beauty the depicted scene of Lessa & Ramoth leading the Weyrs forward would inspire. TWD's cover gives us that sense of nobility and determination that Jaxom & Ruth have. And while Anne always expressed appreciation for his work, she sometimes pointed out the minor flaws that didn't quite match her descriptions. Bronzie made those adjustments & a well done job, too!:good:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff (Post 161356)
You can't tell in the image here, but in the full-sized painting his eyes were faceted. The resizing kind of blurs it all together :( I'm not sure what you mean by Whelan's Ruth not having an eyeball? :confused:

Any way you can get a higher-res scan of your painting online?:bouncy::drool:

Tamara Henson Mar 10 2010 08:01 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
I'm glad everyone likes this picture and I am especially glad to find that my first guess as to who the artist was was correct.

The Michael Whelan painting "Wyerworld" is one of my favorates, I even have a checkbook with that painting on it (containing matching checks) but I like Spiff's version better :D.

I am thinking of writing a Pern role playing game for GURPS 4th edition as the 3rd edition Gurps Pern is no longer online. It will be a free download (of course) at Scribid.com but I still wonder if this type of project falls under Anne's Fanfiction/ online RPG rules? I wrote to Annie's e-mail adress to ask but have not recieved an answer yet.

If it's O.K. Spiff could I use this picture as the cover painting? I will give proper credit of course.

jube Mar 10 2010 09:59 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuu (Post 161372)
I've always been ketch reading, just not always responding;)

I've done that myself on occasions - I think the few times I haven't logged on, was due to holidays or compie troubles or if we've had an extra few busy days...

Anyway, glad you're both back and hope to see more piccy's and opinions from both of ye. It's been awhile.


Spaceman Spiff Mar 11 2010 01:50 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuu (Post 161372)
Any way you can get a higher-res scan of your painting online?:bouncy::drool:

I've searched and searched my hard drive and I can't find it! I could have sworn that I worked in a hi-res version, but all the WIPs I have saved are the same size as the one here. I must have been insane to have worked on such a small image :crazy: So it looks like this is the biggest it gets, unless I paint a new one :lol:

I have been considering doing renditions of some of Whelan's other covers, and doing a proper large-scale painting.

Spaceman Spiff Mar 11 2010 01:53 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamara Henson (Post 161376)
If it's O.K. Spiff could I use this picture as the cover painting? I will give proper credit of course.

I'll send you a new version with a watermark - but you can only use it if it's made extremely clear that this is not my original work, I don't want to steal any of Whelan's thunder. This is meant to be a tip of the hat to Whelan, not the other way around. It would be even better if you could link to Whelan's original work.

GinnyStar Mar 11 2010 03:54 AM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
I also just recall something too that make so blue, no other dragons on rocks outcrops and trees in it.

Tamara Henson Mar 11 2010 08:48 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff (Post 161397)
I'll send you a new version with a watermark - but you can only use it if it's made extremely clear that this is not my original work, I don't want to steal any of Whelan's thunder. This is meant to be a tip of the hat to Whelan, not the other way around. It would be even better if you could link to Whelan's original work.

Sure Thing, I already have Whelan's website address. Thank You very much.

Spaceman Spiff Mar 16 2010 12:27 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
I tried starting on a different rendition of another Whelan painting. Thank you Tamara for getting me inspired to paint Pern again :D

Here's what I have so far of The White Dragon. Sorry it's so small, photobucket won't seem to let me make it any bigger.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...g?t=1268752130


He looked a little emaciated in the head and front limbs in Whelan's painting, so I added a little there, and changed some other things which looked a little awkward. The harness in the original didn't look quite functional either... I couldn't see how it could be strapped down and secured toward the back. He was riding back quite far and everything was strapped down only at the front around Ruth's neck, so I altered the harness too.

I'm not sure whether to keep the Red Star the way it is which looks beautiful in Whelan's, or adjust it to make it a more accurate size. It's more like a moon here than a star-like appearance.

If there's anything that looks off or that needs to be changed, please let me know so I can change it before I get too far in :)



Could this thread be moved to the Exhibit Hall? Or should I just split off into another thread with the new paining?[/color]

Eriflor Mar 16 2010 01:39 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsara (Post 161352)
<snip>
I wonder if the eyes had stayed blue, if the expression you achieved on Ruth's face would have been lost? Maybe the expression is heightened because his eyes are green? Also just noticed he actually has an eyeball, which Whelan's did not. Maybe that is the difference... Looking at Whelan's one, Ruth's eyes look a little glassy.

<snip>

I don't think Pernese dragons are meant to have eyeballs. The eyeball is the pupil, which expands and contracts to let in more or less light. The dragons have faceted eyes and all the facets are light-sensitive --- I don't know how they keep out excessively bright light, but it would presumably have to happen in each of the facets. Or, Skies of Pern mentions nictitating eye-lids that close to protect the eyes from char (in the chapter where F'lessan is removing the stitches from Golanth's eye), so maybe they also keep out excess light.

Eriflor.

Greenrider Tresa Mar 16 2010 06:12 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
That painting looks good to me. :) I think i like it better than Whelan's original too, you're right about Ruth looking emaciated.

Tamara Henson Mar 25 2010 07:07 PM

Re: Who's Painting is This?
 
Very nice preliminary painting Spaceman Spiff. I agree that Whelan's original had way too skinny a neck and head - reminding me of of a plucked chicken more thn anything else. The only major change I can suggest is to modify Ruth's upper muzzle between the nostrils and beak tip. The beak looks a little shallow and fragile as it is now. Otherwise it looks great and I like the new harness.


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